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Rantings of a Sandmonkey

Be forewarned: The writer of this blog is an extremely cynical, snarky, pro-US, secular, libertarian, disgruntled sandmonkey. If this is your cup of tea, please enjoy your stay here. If not, please sod off

Thursday, October 20, 2005


As if the state of religious harmony wasn't already in shambels in Alexandria thanks to last week's attack and siege of a church by angry muslims duped by local MB parliamentary candidate, it seems that the situation won't get better anytime soon: The Mujahedeen of Egypt have issued a statement threatening the "cross-worshippers of Egypt" (Hattip Ritzy), and now a young man stabbed a nun and another man in a church in Alexandria while shouting "Allahu Akabar". While the young man was later arrested by the police and while the injuries sustained by the nun and the man were not dangerous, this incident is clearly disturbing, especially given the timing. It may be too early to call it, but there may be a resurrection of secterian violence in Egypt between christians and muslims once again. In a country that claims to be religiously tolerant, it never occured to the people who rule it that it may not stay that way without emphasizing the importance of respecting people from other faiths than that of the majority. After years of the government encouraging openly racist hate-speech against the jews- a.k.a. the evil infidel descendents of the pigs and monkeys-amongst its majorly muslim population because it gave the people someone to hate besides them, they seem rather surprised that the people started having the same attitude and using the same terminology against the christians. The subtitution of the Jews by the christians as objects of hate was rather easy, given that they were both minorities and that there is increasing envy amongst the muslim population because they seem to have this view that the christians are wealthier than them, which of course breeds and fuels the resentment, not to mention the continious marginalzations of the christians in Egypt in terms of representation in government or even being viewed as citizens of Egypt. I used to laugh my ass off when on national television they would congratulate "our christian brothers" on their holidays. I always wonderd, if we were all egyptains and equal, how come when the muslim holidays come along, they won't congratulate us the same way? I would love it if they announced a season greetings to "Our Muslim Brothers" on TV. I believe it would give the islamists ulcers. But even that, which is nothing but a stupid and symbolic example of how deeply rooted inequality and racism in Egypt really is, doesn't happen and likely never will. And yet people wonder how it's so easy in a country as "religiously tolerant" as ours, things like what's been happening in Alexandria could happen. Sigh... No wonder all of my christian friends want to leave this country. I don't blame them. I just feel horrible that this is how badly our state of religious harmony has regressed. Egypt used to be a country where Jews, christians and muslims lived side by side as Egyptians. Now the muslims have effectively kicked the jews out and are working on doing the same to the christians, so that egypt could be a 100% islamic country. I don't know what the victory in that would be really or what purpose it would serve. All I know is that if its price is the persecution and uprooting of a defenseless minority that Islam and the Koran stated should be repsected and protected, then the whole thing can be damned as far as I am concerned.


At 10/20/2005 05:04:00 AM, Blogger Shamoussa said...



At 10/20/2005 05:54:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Unfortunately what you are saying is true. Sometimes I wonder what will happen to us in the near future.

At 10/20/2005 05:57:00 AM, Blogger Mia said...

I wish what you were saying about the Muslims effectively running the Christians out of Egypt was an exaggeration. Alas it's not I just got word that b/c of the happenings in Alexandria my Coptic friend is leaving Egypt. I can't even imagine the pain of leaving your home b/c of religious persecution. Yeah I know it's happened before but you would have figured something would have been learned.

At 10/20/2005 06:39:00 AM, Anonymous Moushira said...

There's a social aspect, that you are not actually considering here..!!
Have you seen the church..? do you have any idea where is it located..? do have any idea how the ambiance of the zone where the church is located ,is like..?? do you know anything about the residents of this specific Zone 'Muharam Beih' , where all the action took place..?!
Well, i am not defending the sick strategy of government of putting non-muslims ,into a subject of hate, or defending the sick attitude of some muslims againest 'OTHERS' ,as long as they are not muslims. But i guess this is not the case here.
Regarding the church location. we are talking about place of a very low social standars ,a zone that is not far away from drug dealing 'headquarters'( yes very near form the best drug selling locations in Alexandria) ,surrounded by suburban places ,where actually local alexandrians (like myself) have no idea where do they lead to.
i am not sure what zone could resemble it in cairo (so as to give a clearer picture) , but what i know is that we are talking about a place where terms of drug and violence, are familiar.
Also one major thing, about the Muslim and Christian palimantary candidates , this very circuit is a good target for "ikhwan" , and they already have members there, But the competition is tough,with the other Usual popular christain candidate..(as majority of zone residents are christians )
That is what has supported the rise of action,and crime. In another words , it wouldnt have happened in another church, even with the same palrimentary elections circumistances.
So, kindly ..dont generalize.., this is a very special case study, that can not be abstraced from PLACE or TIME..!

At 10/20/2005 06:44:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

so u r saying it's an isolated incident? In 2 seperate churches? Ok then. Let's blame it on poverty in a country where over 40% are under the opverty line, and see how this comforts you.

At 10/20/2005 07:37:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

To any christian in egypt reading this.....get the heck out. Unless you're Moses with an order from God to go free His people in Egypt, then high tail outta there.


At 10/20/2005 08:02:00 AM, Blogger Mia said...

Yes, I have seen the church. Yes I have seen the area. Yes, I am familiar with the ambiance of the area and none of that is justification for the ignorance, violence and intolerance that's being directed towards the Christians. The persecution being done in the name of religion and righteousness is immoral and against all the teachings I ever learned in terms of religion.

At 10/20/2005 09:28:00 AM, Anonymous Moushira said...

As i have said befor..i am not defending the sick attitude of people or the lame startigies of the government. But this very case is not a good example for generalization.
Other churches have larger theaters with regural performances usually, where non-Christians are welcomed to come and watch..!
No Violence ever happened..so why NOW , and in this church..!!?
That's what i am talking about.

At 10/20/2005 09:43:00 AM, Anonymous CanadianPharaoh said...

I totally agree with you and I posted very similar comments on my Canadian Pharaoh blog. Christians are Egyptians and have contributed positively to the motherland over the years.

Omar Sherif (originnally christian), Youssef Chahine (Coptic Catholic), Boutros Ghali (Coptic Orthodox), Dalida (Italian orign-Catholic), the Sawiris family and hundreds of business owners that lost everything in the 1960's after Nasser's revolution called Egypt their home.

The hate must stop. Christians help contribute positively to Egypt's image, prestige and economy.
We should all learn to live in peace with eachother.

At 10/20/2005 10:01:00 AM, Blogger Scorekeeper said...

The hate must stop. Christians help contribute positively to Egypt's image, prestige and economy. We should all learn to live in peace with each other.
This statement is striking to me. Learn to live together?
Are not Muslims 85-90% of the population? Were not the Coopts the original Egyptians or much more close to them? How is it that "Islam" has to learn to live with a minority that is only 10-15% of the population?
You make it sound like it's a 50/50 two way street? If Islam can't live with a tiny powerless minority than what the hell "can it live with"?

Can you fin imagine if even 1 incident like this happened in the US to a Mosque? There would be PC hell to pay in the media and gov't, etc.... It would be the best thing in the world for "CAIR" and would garner them even more power and leverage.

The hypocritical comparisons to the Islamic Middle East and the US is just fin MINDBLOWING! Al Jazeera would have front page specials on the "perseucution of Muslims in the racist US" for the next 2 weeks!!

BP noted how silent the Arab world was Shiites were mass slaughtered 2 weeks ago. I'm sorry when I read this I say we should close our borders to the Muslims in the Middle East... g-d forbid we ever end up in a situation like Holland or Britain and the greatest country on the history of the planet becomes completely f'd up.


At 10/20/2005 11:26:00 AM, Blogger programmer craig said...

Mike, I just got in an argument with somebody on another blog who claimed Middle Eastern society and culture was none of America's business and none of America's concern. Maybe we should actually make that statement as "true" as we can, and not allow Arab muslims to come to the US. I'd really hate to see that happen, but the mentality that "it's none of our concern" when muslim Arabs continue to murder Americans in the name of Islam is ridiculous.

At 10/20/2005 12:10:00 PM, Blogger CanadianGoose said...

Sandmonkey, You are awesome as usual!

At 10/20/2005 12:13:00 PM, Blogger Vox Populi - Agent Provocateur said...

No Jonas the Coptic Christians don't have to leave. It's their country and they were here well before the Arabs. The Christians in Palestine have left, the Christians in Iraq are leaving (we have plenty of them in Beirut waiting their green cards). The last countries with substantial Christian minorities are Egypt, Lebanon and Syria and they shouldn't have to leave their own countries.

Lebanon may be the only exception in the Arab world, despite Hezbollah and the civil war, there's a genuine inter-sectarian tolerance. We thought it was dead but the inter-sectarian reconciliation is real. I understand what SAM or Big P. mean when they say 'Egypt was not like this'. It became like this because Egyptian intellectuals and clerics didn't have the guts to say: stop, these people are idiots, we need less religion and not more religion.

At 10/20/2005 12:31:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Vox Populi,

I'm not saying they have to leave; I'm saying they should leave. There's a difference. If they stay, who's going to protect them? Who's going to stand up for them? The overwhelmingly Muslim governement officials? The mullahs and clerics? I know if I was a Coptic in Egypt, I would find a way to leave to a country like the US. When it comes down to it, it's all about self-preservation.


At 10/20/2005 01:20:00 PM, Blogger programmer craig said...

How's about we trade our anarchists for your Christians, Sam? Maybe we could sweeten the deal, and throw in some ACLU lawyers?

At 10/20/2005 02:20:00 PM, Blogger CanadianGoose said...

The violence must be a response to the zionist-christian conspiracy. So, instead of blaming the people who carried out this act, we should explore the "root causes" and deflect responsibilty onto someone else. Anyway they must of been mossad agents from Israel trying to make muslims look bad. I'm on to you Israel.

At 10/20/2005 02:27:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

How's about we trade our anarchists for your Christians, Sam? Maybe we could sweeten the deal, and throw in some ACLU lawyers?

Yeah, we can throw in all the aclu lawyers, starting with their founder. I'd like to see those legalistic bullies sue the clerics over separation of religion and state. :]


At 10/20/2005 02:29:00 PM, Anonymous Tina said...

What a terrible shame. The Egyptians have lived together as Christian, Jew and Muslim for thousands of years and yet suddenly they can't seem to get along. What has changed, and who has changed it?

Egypt's economy is dependent on tourism, yet if you allow the unique flavor of the country to be destroyed, who will want to come to see it?

At 10/20/2005 03:13:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am an American of Egyptian Muslim origin. Muslims in the Middle East have become extremely arrogant, hateful and never question themselves, their culture or their motivation. That is a recipe for disaster. They might win some by terrorising the world. But eventually the hate will come home to roost. This is self destructive to the Muslim world. The Muslim culture needs reformation because it is rotting from the core.

At 10/20/2005 03:47:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Who is this stupid goose? A baathi canadian goose? A MB canadian goose? Go get yourself a brain before you speak your non-sense. Don't try to give us this apologetic BS on this blog, go find yourself some lefty idiot who'll listen to you.

At 10/20/2005 04:35:00 PM, Blogger Freedom for Egyptians said...

Hi Sam,

I have my contribution on the stabbing of the Egyptian nun, but not from the religious point of view but from Egypt's historical point of view.

At 10/20/2005 05:10:00 PM, Blogger CanadianGoose said...

Who is this stupid goose? A baathi canadian goose? A MB canadian goose? Go get yourself a brain before you speak your non-sense. Don't try to give us this apologetic BS on this blog, go find yourself some lefty idiot who'll listen to you.

It's called sarcasm. But the scary thing is, is that many Canadians actually believe things like that.

At 10/20/2005 05:26:00 PM, Blogger Z said...

What's freaky about the sectarian violence in Egypt, and within predominantly Islamic societies, is that they won't stop their hatred with the entire elimination of religious minorities. Next, they target history. Erasing any trace of minority existence and history--so the only history and identity folks have is that of Islam. It's happened in Afghanistan. What is left? Nothing. Absolutely nothing--museums looted, monuments destroyed, culture and tradition repressed in some areas, if not obliterated in others.

What drives me insane is that Muslims often ignore or undermind the severity of fanatic Muslims and/or the extremist orthodoxy subscribed to by Islamists.

I often bring up the case of Egypt and the rising power of the MB when discussing the growing threat of Islamic fanaticism and violence--only to be told that "it's not THAT bad." That's what folks said about the Taliban.

Unless drastic measures are taken to control the MB and other Islamist organizations in Egypt--and by saying this, I am not calling for the elimination of freedom of expression, but when folks teach and advocate hate where it does serve as a potent threat--something needs to be done--I only see the MB rising to power. I give Egypt maybe 20 years before it succumbs to Islamic extremists. Or maybe 14 years considering it borders Jihadistan--oh sorry, I meant Gaza.

At 10/20/2005 06:46:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am not surprised at all. When you see that jews were virtually kicked out & became unwlecome in their own country, it is just a matter of time before the remaining groups start to turn on each other.
With all these sermond hating speeches against crusaders & jews, what does one expect, coming from a population where 45% of is illiterate. I think he who cannot tolerate the other who is different is simply very weak & frail. I hope these events dont escalate further.

At 10/20/2005 09:04:00 PM, Blogger Scorekeeper said...

The bottom line is that War is not guns, tanks or even suicide bombs (cowards) it's in the mind... Words, teachings and ideas are the most powerful causes of War. And just because there is a lack of killing does not mean there is peace. The rhetoric and teaching has been going on a long time and it has it's consequences. SM even mentioned in this post how there is no Jews left and you can't take out your hate on people that aren't there, even if you incessantly demean and hate Jews and Israel. Hate is insidious... and if they moved Israel to Australia tomorrow it would not make 1 DIFFERENCE.
That's what the fin leftists don't get.



At 10/21/2005 08:56:00 AM, Blogger yochanan said...


At 10/21/2005 06:31:00 PM, Anonymous Peter-Australia said...

Where is all the condemnation of these attacks in media and the mosques? If Egyptian Muslims believe that Islam is the religion of peace that should be condemning any and all attacks against people no matter what they believe.
Sectarian attacks became an all too familar part of Northern Ireland but now the different Christian faiths stand together condemning all attacks.
One example is after a firebombing of a Catholic church the local Presbyterian church volunteered to help in the clean up to show their total disagreement with this attack.
We believe in the one God though our faiths are different. We are one family of God therefore an attack on Christian/Muslim/Jew is an attack on your own family.

At 10/21/2005 09:38:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Peter-Australia, you are right, we are all of the same family just different branches of the same tree.:)


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