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Rantings of a Sandmonkey

Be forewarned: The writer of this blog is an extremely cynical, snarky, pro-US, secular, libertarian, disgruntled sandmonkey. If this is your cup of tea, please enjoy your stay here. If not, please sod off

Wednesday, January 04, 2006

DeJaVu at the border

Remember how the palestinians blew holes in our Gaza border's wall back in september and crossed over and engaged in arms trafficking and smuggeling into Gaza with the egyptian border police helping them and not stopping them? Remember how I said that this is a dangerous precedent and shouldn't be allowed to just slide by the egyptian government? Well, the palestinians have done it again and this time they killed 2 egyptian soldiers and injured at least 30 more people. Hundreds of angry Palestinians streamed into Egypt on Wednesday after militants with stolen bulldozers broke through a border wall, and two Egyptian troops were killed and 30 were wounded by gunfire in the rampage. About 3,000 Egyptian Interior Ministry troops who initially had no orders to fire swarmed the border but were forced to withdraw about a half-mile, said security forces Lt. Sameh el-Antablyan, who announced the casualties. [...] Earlier, the Egyptian troops fired tear gas and shot into the air. A witness said three Palestinians were injured — one seriously, when a troop carrier crushed him against a wall. [...] The rampage began late Tuesday, after Palestinian intelligence arrested Alaa al-Hams, an Al Aqsa militant, on suspicion he and his followers kidnapped human rights activist Kate Burton and her parents for two days last week. The Burtons were among 19 foreigners abducted by Fatah gunmen in Gaza in recent months. All have been freed unharmed. Al-Hams' followers fired at the Palestinian security headquarters in Rafah, where he was held, briefly took over four government buildings, and then drove to the Rafah crossing, which was reopened last month after intense negotiations directed by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. Firing in the air, they closed the entrance gate and told waiting passengers to leave. They set up an impromptu checkpoint, turning away travelers, but left the buildings and the crossing after three hours. The militants then stole two bulldozers in Rafah and led an impromptu parade of hundreds of jubilant residents toward a wall a few hundred yards from the border. Five militants rode in the shovel of one bulldozer, while children held onto the back of the vehicle. "We are going to do everything we can to pressure the Authority to release our leader," said an Al Aqsa activist who gave his name as Abu Hassan. The bulldozers smashed two holes in the towering concrete barrier at the same spot where Hamas militants had blasted through it during the border chaos that followed Israel's Gaza pullout in September. Palestinian security officials had closed the earlier hole with a patch of heavy concrete blocks, but those quickly gave way before the bulldozer Wednesday. Hundreds of Palestinians swarmed into the buffer zone as militants fired in the air. "Many people walked through. The Palestinian police can't stop them," said Fawzi Shaheen, a 26-year old Rafah resident who ran toward the border. Witnesses said as many as 1,000 Palestinians rushed into Egypt, but Egyptian Brig. Adel Fawzi, director of criminal investigations for North Sinai, put the number at 300. God. I hope all of you idiots who kept saying that the palestinain disrespect to our borders doesn't matter and that they are our brothers and would never harm egyptians are happy. The Egyptian army better stop pussyfooting around and actually protect our borders for once, cause this is getting redicilous.

64 Comments:

At 1/04/2006 02:15:00 PM, Blogger Scorekeeper said...

Sandman,
I tried emailing you but there is some problem with Gmail in general or from the ISP I am at.

Nice talking to you and hopefully we'll be able to catch up when you're in town. Just give me the heads up at least 2 days in advance.

Take care.

 
At 1/04/2006 03:06:00 PM, Blogger Seneferu said...

I'm calling on Egyptian bloggers to organize a protest tomorrow against the Palestinian invasion of Egypt and the killing of our soldiers.

Thought I should use the traffic on your blog to publicize this.

However, for known reasons, I don't expect Kifaya among other groups to respond to this.

 
At 1/04/2006 03:18:00 PM, Blogger The Sandmonkey said...

Man, Organize it and I will post about it, altough I doubt many in the egyptian blogsphere will respond. I hope they do and prove me wrong, but knowing how most of them worship Nasser, excuse any action any palestinain takes and still think Yasser Arafat is a hero, I highly doubt it!

But as I said, I would love to be proven wrong on that one.

 
At 1/04/2006 03:45:00 PM, Blogger Original_Jeff said...

Dear sandmonkey,

I am sorry to hear of the death of your soldiers. I am sure there are some very sad sons, daughters, moms, dads, brothers, and sisters today in Egypt.

Your soldiers can surely use lethal force in self-defense or to save innocent lives of those who are not engaging in unlawful behavior, right?

 
At 1/04/2006 03:45:00 PM, Blogger Crazy Girl said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 1/04/2006 03:48:00 PM, Blogger Crazy Girl said...

I say do the protest. I will call my friends and Im sure I can get my bro and some friends
to go.. Send the info to Sm or post it and I will do what I can. If you send the info to Sm have him foward it to me he has my contact info. Or leave it on my yahoo. Good luck with it all.

 
At 1/04/2006 03:51:00 PM, Blogger Seneferu said...

I understand your point, but I have more faith in the Egyptian bloggers and younger people to do this, than the older left wingers in Kifaya who have been the driving force of their own protests, and who fall under the category you just described. I think this protest may very well work if it's publicized enough. I must admit though that I'm not quite the activist myself...at least let's call for one and see what happens.

 
At 1/04/2006 04:14:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I know that this is obscienly off topic...but i found this out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Shawarma (don't ask me how) and figured it is really hillarious. Since i was reading ur blog at the same time, you're the lucky winner!
Cheers

 
At 1/04/2006 05:16:00 PM, Anonymous Mohamed said...

As if the palestinians don't have enough people hating, persecuting, dehumanizing and treating them like animals, that you want the egyptians to start slinging some mud too? Exaggerating it as a "Palestinian invasion of Egypt" to stir some fear leading to their subjection to more anger and hate, but this time by us? I don't know whether it's just human nature to blame and pick on the weakest & most helpless among us or you people are just mean. The death of the poor soldiers is a tragedy, but viewing it as if every single palestinian has got their hands covered with their blood serves no purpose, except showing that you yourself SM is full of the same "arab contradictions" that you despise so much, I don't have an iota of a doubt that if those soldiers were killed by Israelis that you'd find them an excuse while joking about it.
And by the way I don't worship Nasser, and think that Arafat was more detrimental to the palestinians than Sharon himself.

 
At 1/04/2006 05:44:00 PM, Blogger Seneferu said...

Mohamed,

These "weakest and most helpless among us" not only bulldozed our border, but proceeded to kill 2 Egyptian soldiers and wounded 30 more (who by the way were holding back their fire), among them 3 now critically wounded.

If in response to this unprovoked crime on your fellow citizens and your national honour, you think it would be too much to merely "sling mud on them", then quite frankly I think you are pathetic. I am not calling for a similar respone on the Palestinians, we're calling for a protest to announce our condemnation of this crime.

And tell me how the bulldozing of our border, the shooting and killing of our security patrol guards (from wounds in the chest and head as I just heard on Al Jazeera), followed by the invasion of 1,000 Palestinians, is not an "invasion"? You call this picking on them? Wake up.

 
At 1/04/2006 05:56:00 PM, Blogger Seneferu said...

What would be your reaction if Israelis had done this?

 
At 1/04/2006 06:43:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sandmonkey,
My thoughts and prayers are with the dead and injured Egyptian soldiers and their families. This is nothing new. The Palestinians have been doing this sort of thing forever...without ever being condemned by the Arab or Muslim world, and by and large the non-Arab or Muslim world has also remained silent. I hope Seneferu's protest is successful.

raisinchaser

 
At 1/04/2006 07:46:00 PM, Anonymous CanadianPharaoh said...

Mohame,

Sorry to say but you lack critical judgement, national pride and you have been totally blinded by the Palestinian cause.

Their national cause, as just as it may be, does not give them the right to bulldoze a border crossing, cross into a foreign country and kill 3 Egyptian soldiers. Barberism will always be barberism and there is no justification for such anarchy.

The border should be blocked, the Egyptian soldiers should shoot anyone trying to come in and, quite frankly, we should stop all shipments of food and supply going into Gaza as punishment. We should "clean out" the area and reclaim our national pride.

After having destroyed Lebanon and having attempted the same in Jordan, the Palestinians are trying to ignite conflict on our soil.....Screw them! If we continue beeing attacked, we should go into destruction mode and turn Gaza into hell!

Long live secular Egypt, long live the Pharaohs and let's start kicking some %?%!.....

CanadianPharaoh
(The nationalist Copt)

 
At 1/04/2006 08:50:00 PM, Blogger Scorekeeper said...

You have to excuse Mohammed, you see he's caught in a maze... if he turns right he has to admit the "poor Palestinians" are an irredentist militarized culture of hate and not some poor rock throwers, if he turns left than he than he has to defend the brutal murder and state you have to understand it... then he sounds like someone who is so blinded by his hate for Israel (though he can't outright at least blame them for this) that he excuses the murder of Egytpians by militant Palestinians.

It's a snafu a catch 22 if you will?
What to do eh Mohammed?

THE ANSWER -

Try and ignore this and then as soon as Israel does something else scream and yell about that even louder.... eh that sounds about right huh?

 
At 1/04/2006 09:02:00 PM, Blogger Scorekeeper said...

Mohammed
As if the palestinians don't have enough people hating, persecuting, dehumanizing and treating them like animals, that you want the egyptians to start slinging some mud too?
Eh Mohammed guess who fing created the shithole of persecution in Gaza? THE EGYPTIANS.... why don't you ask Nonie Darwish who grew up there about that one!

And "hate persecute" etc... the Palestinians are more hated by the Arabs than the Israelis... the Israelis have friggin Human Rights Groups created for them! The Lebanese and Syrians have them campsed in "Refugee Camps" not allowed to work in a job over 3rd tier blue collar or own a home for 50+years and you think the Arabs in those countries beyond using them as "TROPHY" animals to say "look what Israel is doing to them (ahem....)" give a flying SHIT about them? They'd as soon dump them in the Mediterranean after the Israelis if they could...

their subjection to more anger and hate, but this time by us?
This time by US? What crack pipe are you smoking?
Do you actually think the Arabs treat the Palis better than anyone else on the planet? Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Egypt? Are you pretending or actually believe this Alice in Wonderland fantasy?


I don't know whether it's just human nature to blame and pick on the weakest & most helpless among us or you people are just mean.

Excuse me but it seems to be a very common trait in Arab lands.
Are you referring to the Kurds?Or the Xtians raided by KKKesque mobs recently? Or do you mean like kidnapping civilians and cutting their heads off?
IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT?

The death of the poor soldiers is a tragedy, but viewing it as if every single palestinian has got their hands covered with their blood serves no purpose,

True there are plenty of Palestinians who hate this culture of hate and violence... they end up shot or dragged through the streets and hung.

SM is full of the same "arab contradictions" that you despise so much

Is a comment necessary here?

and think that Arafat was more detrimental to the palestinians than Sharon himself.

Here's a clue for you. NOBODY was more detrimental to the Palestinians than Arafat.
And Sharon got more respect from forget his own people, or Arab in the SLA and IDF but Arab leaders than Arafat X A MILLION.

 
At 1/04/2006 10:15:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is time to open the borders with Gaza. Egyptians and the rest of the Arab world should give citizenship to any Arab from the West Bank and Gaza who chooses to live in the Arab world. We have to stop treating them like they are in a prison camp and use them as the distraction for our own political purposes. The Arab Israeli conflict has to end as the little side show that distracts the Arab street from seeing its true problems.

 
At 1/04/2006 11:43:00 PM, Blogger Seneferu said...

Scorekeeper,

How did you twist Palestinians' killing of Egyptian border patrol guards and invading, into Egyptians creating persecution in Gaza...what are you talking about? Explain more.

 
At 1/05/2006 01:27:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What happened is just plain anarchy on part of some lawless Palestinians in Gaza. Whatever the sympathies/grievances are thetre, there should be no tolerance by Egyptian authorities on such behavior. Borders are sovoreign entities and should kept as such on both sides.

Egyptian in Germany

 
At 1/05/2006 05:36:00 AM, Blogger GC said...

This is freaking ridiculous! I saw the images on the news last night and saw gunmen with their machine guns firing intentionally at the Egyptian soldiers. And I don't see how tolerating such bullshit makes us any more patriotic.

 
At 1/05/2006 06:49:00 AM, Anonymous Dania said...

Mohamed,

Good point man and don't listen to Scorekeeper he is on drugs and always use imagination to escape reality.

Sharon is dead but in stable condition in the hospital.

 
At 1/05/2006 07:10:00 AM, Anonymous Jokerman said...

palestinians have proved they do not deserve to have a country of their own. They are not yet mature enough & responsible to govern a country let alone themselves first.
& to mohamed, why dont you say the same thing about israelis when they kill a few palestinians?

 
At 1/05/2006 07:11:00 AM, Blogger SnoopyTheGoon said...

Hi SM,

Sorry about the dead and injured soldiers. Their bad luck was to stand in the way of al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades "freedom fighters" on rampage.

Just because somebody in PA decided to take a step and arrested their boss - which he richly deserves. Ehehe...

 
At 1/05/2006 09:18:00 AM, Blogger Solomon2 said...

It'll all be over soon. Then, while troubles with may continue, everything will be quiet on the Gaza-Libya border!

 
At 1/05/2006 10:57:00 AM, Anonymous Mohamed said...

Too much empty slogans and meaningless gestures for someone who hates Nasser so much Senefru (I loved your piece about Salah Salem, I've been wondering myself), first of all a protest will accomplish nothing except more agitation and anymosity towards the Palestinians, I bet you've noticed yourself how some jumped on the first chance to spit their hate against them (and against the arabs and the egyptians for that matter), this protest won't allow you to send tanks to protect the borders, because simply you can't. And about our "national honor", I can give you a million instants each day on which our national honor is being raped over and over, that our only sense of national honor right now is a good soccer team, which we don't have.
The irony of all of this is, if you want to boost your sense of national honor or pride, this incident does exactly that, what's more flattering than knowing that there's still remaining places that suck more that it's people are willing to break into our borders to come into our country.
I also have to admit that I always cut the Palestinians a lot of slack, you don't expect to live in abnormal conditions and yet behave normally, and I'd also like to think that we're still better than that, not just knee jerk anger or hate mongers.
Regarding Scorekeeper, don't even try to decipher what he wants, it doesn't matter what you write(he either doesn't read or he doesn't comprehend it), he'll come up with a response that's completely unrelated to your point of view, fill with garbage about how the arabs suck, accuse you of being a closeted anti semite, and sing the praises of Sharon, guaranteed every time, just don't take him seriously and consider him as just one of those chronically annoying (in a funny way) nut jobs.

 
At 1/05/2006 11:23:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Palestinians seem to enjoy making themselves more and more hated? Soon there will be no one left but the powerless lefties (who fund terrorism) from the west left. Don't count on them, they talk a good game but hot air doesn't stop bullets!

PS I once had a dog named Dania

 
At 1/05/2006 11:50:00 AM, Blogger The Sandmonkey said...

Ok Mo, hold on a second.

Let's make some things clear, ok? You are "hatemongering" against someone when you want them punished for just being who they are (ethnicly or religiously). This is not what's going on here and you know it. We are not discriminating against the palestinians for no reason, nor are we encouraging the egyptian public to attack the palestinians living in Egypt. That would be hatemongering my friend. This is not the case here.

The case here is simply this: Our borders with our "palestinian brothers" have been breached and destroyed again by them for the second time this year. The last time people like you excused it by saying that "oh they just wanted some freedom", "cut them a little slack" and the rest of that apologetic crap. The result was that thounseds of guns and arms ended up being smuggeld into Gaza from Sinai, which was a violation of the agreement egypt had with Israel. But whatever, people like you excused it as a one-time thing, and you had on your side that egyptians were not hurt by this directly. Fine..whatever..

This time , however, they breached the wall for no reason at all, crossed our borders armed and than opend fire against our border patrol people, killing at least 2 of them, let alone getting 30 more injured. Let me remind you of that again: Armed foreigners from a bordering country destroyed our border wall, corssed our border opend fire against our army and killed 2 of them. Last time I checked, this sort of action was considerd to be an act of WAR. God knows if it was the israelis who did this, this is exactly what you would be calling this right freakin now.

Now, you can say that our national honor gets raped daily or that our country sucks or whatever other nice things you have to say about egypt, but that doesn't chnage the fact that our borders were breached and our soldierd attacked by armed militants from another country, a country that we bled and died for it to exist, and without provocation. I don't know how to get you to wrpa your head around that concept if you don't think that that's very fuckin wrong and shouldn't be allowed to just pass.

Imagine if there was a group of palestinbians in egypt who killed 2 egyptian cops fopr no reason. Just opend fire on them. Is that ok by you? I mean sure, they are palestinains, and they lived under abnormal circumstances, that must excuse it. Right? I mean, do you even listen to yourself speak? Do you understand what you are defending? The desecration and breach of our borders and the murder of our people by foriegners? Do you get it at all?

I don't blame you though, you suffer from a disease that most egyptians seem to suffer from: the lack of respect for egyptian lives. You are probably the kind of person who when first heard of the Sharm Bombing was like "That sucks. But you know, I bet it's the best time to go sharm right now. The rates must be really cheap!". People like youa re everywhere. You are the kind who is ready to demonstrate against Abu Gharib, but would never say a thing against the daily torture that happens in Abu Za3bal. You probably rail against the insufferable conditions that the poor palestinains or the sudanese refugees suffer in, while you couldn't give a hoot about the egyptians living in conditions like these and worse in this very country. But hell,If these egyptians-who live in similar conditions- went and opend fire against members of your own family, you know you wouldn't ve defending them like you are right now.

Listen kid, the most basic fundemental of patriotism is love for your country and respect for its borders. That's the #1 rule of patriotism ya basha, and it's not one that can be compromsied. If you could care less about this country, say so, but don't claim that it's not a big deal when our borders are breached and our people are killed by armed fighters from another country. You are defending the indefensible here.

Oh, why am I even bothering? Whatever...

senefru: See what I mean?

 
At 1/05/2006 01:21:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

To 11:23 AM, Anonymous said...

Kos Omak let sandmonkey translate that for you.

 
At 1/05/2006 01:31:00 PM, Anonymous Mohamed said...

Wow, SM you really got all worked up this time, and you did it with a lot of passion and I have to admit everything you said made absolute sense, except that you know & I know that the unintended consequences of that patriotically injected rhetoric, is that Palestinians living in Egypt are the ones who are going to suffer from bad treatment, don't tell me that an already volatile public would differentiate between the culprits at the border and between the palestininas living in Egypt, don't you think they'd be viewed as guilty by association? The Alexandria incident is still too fresh.
Also, I didn't give any excuses to those who shot the soldiers, but if you review most of the comments published here, you'll find an overwhelming collective lumping of the palestinians in a negative way regardless of their culpability.
About the "nice" things that I have to say about Egypt, please, give me a break, you had much more "nicer" things to say about it, and I'm not talking about your list of ten things you love about Egypt (by the way, Nageeb Mahfooz kicks Ihsan abd el kodoos butt hands down), I just don't want us to have this primitive pavlovian reaction to everything from this border incident, to the rumours that has been stirring religious tensions more frequently lately, and makes everyone go all tribal (whether this tribe is your country or yor religion), I've always thought of us as better than that.
And listen, grown up guy, nothing irritates me more than the state of Egypt today, you know and I know that it's way under utilized, and that it's current state is just history gone badly wrong, I'm living on the dream or the fantasy that there's a Mohamed Aly lurking somewhere ready to correct history.
About patriotism, when it goes blind it turns into some kind of racism or religious fanaticism,
this makes some of people claim that their race is the master race or that their life's more precious than other races'.
Anyway, it's really good to see you taking Egypt's side for a change :).

 
At 1/05/2006 01:36:00 PM, Anonymous Mohamed said...

Wow, SM you really got all worked up this time, and you did it with a lot of passion and I have to admit everything you said made absolute sense, except that you know & I know that the unintended consequences of that patriotically injected rhetoric, is that Palestinians living in Egypt are the ones who are going to suffer from bad treatment, don't tell me that an already volatile public would differentiate between the culprits at the border and between the palestininas living in Egypt, don't you think they'd be viewed as guilty by association? The Alexandria incident is still too fresh.
Also, I didn't give any excuses to those who shot the soldiers, but if you review most of the comments published here, you'll find an overwhelming collective lumping of the palestinians in a negative way regardless of their culpability.
About the "nice" things that I have to say about Egypt, please, give me a break, you had much more "nicer" things to say about it, and I'm not talking about your list of ten things you love about Egypt (by the way, Nageeb Mahfooz kicks Ihsan abd el kodoos butt hands down), I just don't want us to have this primitive pavlovian reaction to everything from this border incident, to the rumours that has been stirring religious tensions more frequently lately, and makes everyone go all tribal (whether this tribe is your country or yor religion), I've always thought of us as better than that.
And listen, grown up guy, nothing irritates me more than the state of Egypt today, you know and I know that it's way under utilized, and that it's current state is just history gone badly wrong, I'm living on the dream or the fantasy that there's a Mohamed Aly lurking somewhere ready to correct history.
About patriotism, when it goes blind it turns into some kind of racism or religious fanaticism,
this makes some of people claim that their race is the master race or that their life's more precious than other races'.
Anyway, it's really good to see you taking Egypt's side for a change :).

 
At 1/05/2006 01:50:00 PM, Blogger Scorekeeper said...

Seneferu said...
Scorekeeper,
How did you twist Palestinians' killing of Egyptian border patrol guards and invading, into Egyptians creating persecution in Gaza...what are you talking about? Explain more.

I didn't twist it that way. I was just calling out Mohammed's laughabe hypocrisy... it's dripping all over the page....

My point was he acted so shocked (and shagrinned) (for Seinfeld fans) about now "us Egyptians are 'hating' the Palestinians and "persecuting" them....

HIS HOOKAH HAS BEEN PACKING SOME WACKY material lately.

Egypy owned and controlled Gaza for 19 years in which they created a virtual prison camp dump where they encased the Palestinians and forced them to live in hovels.... when Israel got it there was no elecrticity, sewage, plumbing nothing... All they did was berate, persecute, shame and militarize them.....
YOU DON'T THINK THAT IS SO?

So all I'm saying is Mohammed acting so shocked that Egyptians are "persecuting" Palestinians or "hating" them for aggressively murdering Egyptian border guards.... is laughable.

Now after Hamas and Al Asqua thugs invade the Sinai and fully rob, terrorize and destroy the great relationship they have with vacationing Israelis and destroy that economy, Mohammed can then say well you "have to understand"....

Sandmonkey -

Now if Coopts had raided an Egyptian town and shot two Muslims, well then Mohammed might be really PISSED OFF.

Mohammed -

If it makes you feel better to fantasize that I am some "hate monger" to alleviate you from facing your hypocrisies... then go ahead.
And regarding Sharon... let me say this. There isn't one Arab leader in the entire region today that can hold Sharon's jock strap for respect and being liked..... let alone running a military.... you can hate him all you like... but these guys behind closed doors are in FING awe of the guy... whether that says something about him or them you decide... they'd all piss on Arafat's grave.....

Mike

 
At 1/05/2006 03:51:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You are a hate monger and your mind is twisted and needs some repair.

We will piss soon on Sharon grave. So go to hell with him if you don't like.

 
At 1/05/2006 04:13:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nobody cares that the palestinians f*cked up Lebanon. You know by kidnapping, bombing, raping, torturing, and massacring, so why should anyone really care about them messing with Egypt. They are doing what they do best. Just give them a country so they can f*ck it up leaving other countries alone.

 
At 1/05/2006 04:52:00 PM, Anonymous Mohamed said...

Anonymous at 4:13,
So what are you suggesting? Killing them all?
That's the can of worms you've opened senefru and sm.

 
At 1/05/2006 06:09:00 PM, Blogger Twosret said...

"Sorry to say but you lack critical judgement, national pride and you have been totally blinded by the Palestinian cause. "

So anyone who disagrees with you Canadian Coptic Pharaoh (whatever your name is) is lacking a critical Judgement blah blah blah!

Ok let me add to your list myself or moi. Nothing bothers me more than the Coptic nationalist crap you are posting. I'm a Copt and I think Copts like you needs to be put in a mental hospital. You are blinded by your thoughts and you are uneducated about the Palestinian cause.

You are actually worse than Scorekeeper can you imagine?!

 
At 1/05/2006 06:15:00 PM, Blogger Twosret said...

Sandmonkey,

Hold your horses my friend. People who shot at our soldiers should be caught and punished. People who are trying simply to escape the Isreali occupation and aggression should be taken in as REFUGEES. Egypt is not the only country that suffers from people who is seeking refuge. America had to deal with Mexicans you know.

So don't ride your high horses and start attacking Mohamed simply because he does feel for the Palestinians trying to escape HELL!.

This is not a disease it is called human feelings for those who lived under occupation for so long and have no where to go!

Stay tuned Part II reply is comming soon lol

 
At 1/05/2006 06:22:00 PM, Blogger Twosret said...

"Anonymous at 4:13,"

Israel record of Mafia style, torture, occupation, destruction, aggression surpass any Palestinian action.

Get a life!

 
At 1/05/2006 07:12:00 PM, Blogger Scorekeeper said...

Twosret,

You're actually amusing. Please stay on this blog.... you're almost as much of a cartoon as Pat Robertson.

I've decided like Hulk I'm switching sides............................................................

Canadian Pharaoh,
I 2nd Twosret's thoughts. You are a Cooptic Nationalist pig! Just shut the F up already and stop complaining. What the f is your problem... so big wup a few Coopts got beat up, and ok maybe a Nun was stabbed and some Churches and Businesses burned down.... Get over it, the Coopts are a "protected class in Sharia".

And now your griping has actually led you to defend those dam Jews who are committing Genocide on the Palestinians? You stick up for a Kufar over your own cousins?

You should be ashamed of yourself, you kufr jew lover.

Mike

 
At 1/05/2006 07:19:00 PM, Blogger Seneferu said...

Scorekeeper,

Until about 20 years ago the entire Sinai was army territory, undeveloped and off limits to most Egyptians. During these "19 years" from 1948 to 1967 it was a virtual war zone, then afterwards Israeli-occupied territory. I can assure you that these two Egyptian soldiers who were killed by the invading Palestinians yesterday still don't have plumbing in their villages until today, and would be lucky if they had running electricity.

What you are referring to as persecution is Egyptians having poorer living standards than the Palestinians of the Gaza strip. I remember reading a news story during the intafada where Palestinians of Gaza were speaking scornfully of the Egyptian border guards who were delivering food and aid shipments donated by the Egyptian people to the Palestinians. The reason for their scorn was that they thought the food shipments they received were of sub-standard quality to their tastes. So they gave back these food items to the Egyptian guards who were more than happy to eat them, and for this reason they spoke of them as some kind of sub-human animals. This is Egyptian persecution to you. A living example of our persecution is Mohamed, who thinks it would be too harsh of us to condemn the Palestinians who bulldozed our border, killed and wounded Egyptian army personnel and invaded Egyptian territory.

Please don't give me this crap about Egyptians persecuting Palestinians unless you know what you are talking about. If you have specific examples I would like to hear them.

 
At 1/05/2006 07:32:00 PM, Blogger Seneferu said...

Mohamed said to SM:

(About patriotism, when it goes blind it turns into some kind of racism or religious fanaticism,
this makes some of people claim that their race is the master race or that their life's more precious than other races'.)

I'm sorry Mohamed but you seem to value Palestinian lives more than Egyptian ones if you think it is wrong to condemn what happened, especially when you call this racism or fanaticism.

 
At 1/05/2006 08:11:00 PM, Blogger Scorekeeper said...

Seneferu,
You should email your letter to Nonie Darwish and discuss it in more detail with her. She's a sweet lady and would definitely discuss it with you and relay her experiences to you.

Also, Mohammed doesn't hate Egyptians. It's just that admitting that some armed to the teeth Palestinians pre planned an ambush and murder of 2 Egyptian soldiers would be in his mind giving an inch to the Israelis via criticizing the Palestinians... and that is more abhorrent than fully recognizing what happened.

The Palestinians are all opppressed freedom seeking people and not fanatical armed fundamentalists.
If you say different than you're an Arab hater.

 
At 1/05/2006 08:17:00 PM, Anonymous CanadianPharaoh said...

Twosret,

The Palestinians bulldozed their way in our land, killed Egyptian soldiers, kidnapped foreigners trying to help them and now seek to impose religious law in Gaza

They are clearly defiying the elected Palestinian authority and have no respect for international laws and borders. They follow no laws, create anarchy and now want to spread it (remember Lebanon and Jordan) outside their borders again.

Like I said before, even if the Palestinian cause is just, it does not give them the right to act in such a way. By doing so, they are just showing to the world that they can not be trusted and pissing off their only friends in the area....Not to smart! When you have a lot of enemies, you try to maintain your friends. Shooting them and invading parts of their land is not the way to do it.

The Egyptians should not hesitate to use deadly force if it happens again. Barberism should not be tolerated. And yes, I am an Egyptian patriot, do you have a problem with that? If you do, please tell me. I will be on the side of any Egyptian (muslim or christian) before backing Palestinians. Egypt is the land of my ancestors, not Palestine.

By the way, thanks for comparing me to SCOREKEEPER, he's a smart guy. I take it as a compliment!

 
At 1/05/2006 08:19:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mohammed:

Anonymous at 4:13,
So what are you suggesting? Killing them all?

I suggested no such thing, however, you did.

 
At 1/05/2006 08:53:00 PM, Blogger Seneferu said...

And P.S., Mohamed, at 10:57 you said:

(The irony of all of this is, if you want to boost your sense of national honor or pride, this incident does exactly that, what's more flattering than knowing that there's still remaining places that suck more that it's people are willing to break into our borders to come into our country.)

Sinai doesn't exactly "suck". It is regarded by many as one of the most beautiful places in the world, not least of all by the Israelis who left it in tears. We paid a very heavy price to liberate it, and after all this you are willing to let Sinai be overrun by hordes of invading Palestinians, then I don't exactly know what to say to you.

 
At 1/05/2006 09:12:00 PM, Blogger Scorekeeper said...

Canadian Pharaoh,
And pretty handsome too. :-)

 
At 1/06/2006 06:08:00 AM, Blogger Tomanbay said...

I have been away for a while, but I was watching your blog SM. Great job
Anyways, following this discussion really motivated me to write again, because I was so enraged by apologists who try to find anyways to justify their hating and loathing for their own country by finding excuses for people who kill their fellow Egyptians.
Here is a link to my post about one of the killed soldiers. This is, sincerely, not some sort of a shameless promotion. I would really like you all to read it just to remember how real is the fallen soldiers are.
Thanks

 
At 1/06/2006 10:41:00 AM, Anonymous Mohamed said...

Ok guys you've convinced me, let's ask ourselves a question, and say what would Sharon do and emulate it, then take permission from him (through a medium or a psychic of course), to allow us to use our F-16s and destroy some already destroyed palestinian homes in Gaza to punish the blood thirsty savages.
Senefru and Canadian Pharoah, you really need to know more palestinians guys, they don't hate as you think, almost every single palestinian that I know here in the us has a heartbreaking story ( not in a shllow corny way)about him or his parents, that would haunt your consciense for days.
Twosert, you're wonderful.

 
At 1/06/2006 12:17:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mohammed: almost every single palestinian that I know here in the us has a heartbreaking story ( not in a shllow corny way)about him or his parents, that would haunt your consciense for days.

The problem with Palestinians is that you never know what is really true and what is made up. These are people who want to believe in falsehoods because they are in love with victimhood and the "romantic struggle." Without "the conflict," what else defines Palestinians?

 
At 1/06/2006 12:50:00 PM, Anonymous Mohamed said...

Anonymous at 12:17, believe me non of the palestinins' stories I've heard were within the context of trying to gain any sympathy, they were just like casual chattering when you first get aquainted to someone, and a lot of them sad as they are, were being told without a single hint of bitterness. Viewing them as "in love with victimhood", is like someone mugged then arresting him when he calls the cops.

 
At 1/06/2006 02:06:00 PM, Anonymous CanadianPharaoh said...

Mohamed,

Like I said before, I believe in the Palestinian cause because I am convinced they have been the victims of a great injustice in the past and they are still victims today. I know all too well that they lost their land to blue eyed European setlers of jewish faith with no middle-eatern link (genetically or in terms of ancestors)and have never even been to the holy land before. I also know that many were displaced by force by these newly arrived migrants and that millions are in refugee camps untill today. This is wrong and has to be corrected.

But I can't and will never agree with them smashing our border, coming into our country illegally and killing our soldiers. The Palestinians need to gain more support and respect on an international level for their cause but acting in such a way does not help. It just shows to the world that they have no order, that their government has no control over extreme elements in their society and does nothing to benefit their cause.

And as an Egyptian, I am egyptian first and arab second. Our borders must be respected, our people must be strong and any threat to our stability should be dealt with vigourously. That's all.

Egypt forever!

 
At 1/06/2006 07:37:00 PM, Blogger Twosret said...

Mohamed,

Thanks for being sane :)

 
At 1/06/2006 08:26:00 PM, Blogger Twosret said...

Mike,

"You're actually amusing. Please stay on this blog"

You are actually new to this blog, You can say I'm an early fan of Sam. We disagree about a lot but have learned to reason and pick each other brain.

As for your attempt to bring up the Coptic muslim relationship, let me tell you Mr. Bumkeeper that I'm a Coptic and my family are Copts and like many other Copts we lived peacefully side by side with wonder Muslims. My mom held very sensitive Gov. position and never faced racisim. I don't stand this propaganda about how Copts are ALL prosecuted by Muslims. I don't stand the Coptic victim syndrome!

Like any other country and religion there is good and bad!

 
At 1/07/2006 02:13:00 PM, Anonymous Mohamed said...

Twosert, thanks for responding to Scorekeeper's childish attempt, but I have to disagree with you about the current coptic moslem relationship, although the picture isn't as bleak as some picture it, still it's not as rosy as you think, it might have been this way in our parents and grand parents days, but now it's going down hill as everyday passes by, and we have to admit it in order to correct it and stop drifting apart, in fact this should be our number one priority, and the burden in this case lies on the majority, and unless the majority of moslems' motto becomes harm or discriminate or persecute or harras a copt over my dead body first, we're pretty much doomed.
Anyway, god bless you sister.

 
At 1/08/2006 09:47:00 AM, Blogger Seneferu said...

Anonymous at 12:17 said:

"Mohammed: almost every single palestinian that I know here in the us has a heartbreaking story ( not in a shllow corny way)about him or his parents, that would haunt your consciense for days.

The problem with Palestinians is that you never know what is really true and what is made up. These are people who want to believe in falsehoods because they are in love with victimhood and the "romantic struggle." Without "the conflict," what else defines Palestinians?"

Very thoughtful words.

Mohamed at 10:41 said:

"you really need to know more palestinians guys, they don't hate as you think"

Mohamed, they don't hate us at all...their spraying us with bullets ans pelting us with a hail of stones is an act of love.

 
At 1/08/2006 01:39:00 PM, Anonymous Mohamed said...

See Senefru, again you're collectively puting all the Palestinians in one basket, with no differentiation between those who committed the act and those who had nothing to do with it and were disgusted by it, don't tell me that the majority of the palestinians would approve this unprovoked murder of the poor soldiers.
Anyway, I'm repeating myself over and over again, but I've been engaged in this argument all weekend, including an argument I had with my mom yesterday over the phone, and my mom is one of those people who rarely gets angry, she's one of those eternal optimists (for no reason whatsoever), who thinks that everything is lovely and everyone's wonderful, and who willingly lets painters and carpenters and plumbers get away with ripping us of (because they're poor and they too have children to feed), in short, she can feel the pain of others as if it were hers, yet yesterday she was really angry about this incident and more angry at me for trying to defend the palestinians, and she went on a very long and detailed list to prove that they really hate us ranging from things their leaders said about Egypt in the last 30 years to individual incidents of bad palestinian treatement of the egyptians in the gulf and went on and reiterated most of the things already mentioned here by Senefru and company, then she really got emotional about the soldiers and how they've avoided opening fire , because as she put it didn't want to masacare my beloved palestinians, then she wondered if I'm really that stupid.
So if I couldn't convey my point of view to my mom, I guess I won't convince anyone who shares her point of view.
One thing that I didn't stress enough, and I think Senefru, sm ,canadian pahroah and tomanbay and my mom felt that I was insensitive about, is the tragedy of the egyptian soldiers who lost their lives while restraining themselves from opening fire, I don't like slogans and big words, but seriously every single egyptian should be proud of them and know that those guys singlehandedly gave us a true sense of national honor and pride, I also recommend reading Tomanbay's brilliant post, and challenge anyone to hold back his or her tears after reading it. Still I think that instead of channeling our pain to some form of anger and hate campaign against the palestinians, the least that can be done is setting a fund for donations for the slain and disabled soldiers families to provide for their livelyhood, and if there's already such a fund, can someone post information on how to reach it?

 
At 1/08/2006 02:55:00 PM, Blogger Seneferu said...

Mohamed,

I think thousands of Palestinian youths and kids' pelting Egyptian soldiers with stones after invading Egyptian territory is a pretty good indication of a general consensus of opinion among Palestinians as a people for their Egyptian "brothers". I totally agree with your mom's point of view. I never lived in the Gulf myself, but of all the families and individuals who did and whom I asked about their experiences, they each told me stories of the harrassment they faced from their Palestinian co-workers who made it a point to give them a lot of hell.

Of course I am extremely proud of the Egyptian soldiers who defended Egypt unarmed against armed invaders, but I am also extremely ashamed of their commanding officers who betrayed their soldiers and their duty by ordering them not to fire back. If we were in a proper country these officers would undoubtedly be put under trial and dishonoured in front their people. This is nothing short of treason. Believe me, these soldiers are not proud because they did not fire back on the "Palestinian brothers", because this BS exists only in the newspapers and media we are fed everyday like cattle. They had the unfortunate experience of living through the real deal. If these soldiers are feeling anything right now, it is the feeling of betrayal by their commanding officers and by their country that shamelessly turned its back on them instead of standing by to support them, even though they bravely fulfilled their duty towards their country.

I think your idea of setting up a fund of donations for the soldiers is an excellent idea. The government announced yesterday that it would be issuing 100 pounds to the injured soldiers, and 1000 pounds to the families of the deceased. This is a joke...mish 3aref a'oul eh bi sara7a.

 
At 1/08/2006 03:19:00 PM, Blogger Seneferu said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 1/08/2006 04:07:00 PM, Blogger Tomanbay said...

Well, I'm glad everybody is at least agreeing that what the soldiers did was brave, and that through this extremley unfortunate accident, we were able to feel, for the first time in a while, that we're proud of being Egyptians, and that we were reminded of what very brave (but also very real, familiar people) are doing even though it might appear to everybody, and themselves, that it is against their own will.
Anyways, they're dead now, but if their death would unite as much Egyptians as possible, at least in feeling sorry for their families, and helping them out, then these lives won't be lost in vain.

Mohamed, thanx for the very kind words. Plz dont be offended by my later posts. I dont know you, but one of your comments provided excellent material for me that helped me deliver my point. So, sorry if u found it offensive.

 
At 1/09/2006 12:41:00 PM, Anonymous Mohamed said...

TomanBay, no offense taken man, it's usaully the controversial topics that bring out the best arguments. About your article, it was really amazing, it was so typical and real and human and well written, that as I've said, keeping a dry eye by the time you finish it means you've got a heart of stone.
I'm sorry for commenting on your and Senefru's articles on SM's blog, although they're mostly more aligned with my views than SM's.
1000 pounds Senefru? If you hit a cow on the highway, you'd have to pay more than that.

 
At 1/09/2006 04:53:00 PM, Blogger Papa Ray said...

I am sure that on both sides of the border there are many that are good and great people. I am also just as sure that there are many that could care less about the other side.

Just remember this. If you want to have a great country, you have to abide by the laws of the land. If you don't like the laws of the land you must change them. Peacefully or otherwise. Or leave.

If you invade someone you better be able to back it up and win, because its frowned on and brings out the nationalist feelings in any country.

Look at Iraq.

I used to think that the Arab-Jewish thing could be settled peacefully, not any more. There is too much hate for too many years for too many reasons.

It will wind up killing thousands upon thousands more. Of course, meanwhile in the rest of the World, Islamic conquest by peaceful and not so peaceful means will continue, most likely for at least another hundred years.

Or until too many are dead to fight anymore.

Papa Ray
West Texas
USA

 
At 1/09/2006 07:18:00 PM, Blogger Seneferu said...

In this spirit I feel I owe some apologies as well...

So Mohamed, sorry if I snapped at you earlier, and Scorekeeper, sorry if I snapped at you as well.

I hope my mentioning both your names in the same sentence won't ignite a whole new argument:-)...let's save the arguments for another post.

 
At 1/10/2006 09:31:00 AM, Anonymous Mohamed said...

Senefru, like hell it well ignite a new argument, putting me in the same corner with Scorekeeper is an insult much greater than the original reason for the apology, that's so painful man :), really, check his blog, this guy's got some serious issues.
Seriously, no need for an apology, I don't really mind being snapped at or called names, as long as you have a good faith belief in your point of view based on reliable information.
Scorekeeper, in the spirit of the moment, I too apologize for being mean and for my harsh words, I just regret that I wasn't harsher and more mean.

 
At 1/11/2006 04:18:00 PM, Blogger Scorekeeper said...

Who is the M character?

1) In mommy's basement?
2) someone with no friends?
3) someone with no job just time to pretend he's important on line in discussion rooms?
4) someone who likes to pretend he's a lot cooler than he really is?

A CANNNUNDRUM. but really who cares.... NOONE just ignore him from now on...

 
At 1/12/2006 11:05:00 AM, Anonymous Mohamed said...

At least this time yor reply was related to the subject for a change Scorekeeper, I commend you for that, hopefully the medications are finally starting to work, and they'd start allowing you supervised weekend leaves at the asylum.
Get well soon man.

 
At 1/12/2006 05:39:00 PM, Anonymous Mohamed said...

At least this time yor reply was related to the subject for a change Scorekeeper, I commend you for that, hopefully the medications are finally starting to work, and they'd start allowing you supervised weekend leaves at the asylum.
Get well soon man.

 

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