.comment-link {margin-left:.6em;}

Rantings of a Sandmonkey

Be forewarned: The writer of this blog is an extremely cynical, snarky, pro-US, secular, libertarian, disgruntled sandmonkey. If this is your cup of tea, please enjoy your stay here. If not, please sod off

Tuesday, January 31, 2006

Iran and the Holocaust, again

Iran wants to invite Blair to its Holocaust conference so that he could defend the myth that the "Holocaust really happend". No, really. "It would be good for Mr. Blair to participate in the Holocaust seminar in Tehran," foreign ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi told reporters.

"He can also contribute with an article. If he wants to defend the Holocaust in that article, he can do so. We will give him the time to read out his article so others can hear his point of view," Asefi said Sunday, adding the conference was slated for "the coming spring".

Blair, the israeli zionist agent who knows that the Holocaust didn't happen, of course chickend out on the offer. On Monday, Blair lashed out at the planned meeting as "shocking, ridiculous, stupid," and said Ahmadinejad "should come and see the evidence of the Holocaust himself in the countries of Europe". Resorting to name calling, huh Blair? Afraid to be exposed as the zionist agent that you are? Well, the iranians are not scared, and the courageous A.J. took him up on his challenge. "In Mr. Blair's speech there was an invitation for the Iranian president to go there and see the places close up. We have to see when the president has time for it," Asefi said.

Iran's foreign ministry has already said was willing to send a team of "independent investigators" to visit former Nazi deaths camps across Europe.

Yes, I am sure they can bring down the number of Jews killed by at least 2 - 3 millions, because 6 million jews killed is a tragedy, but 3 million jews? Ehh, that's in the acceptable range. The onion seems to have the Conference's schedule. Check it out.


At 1/31/2006 06:05:00 AM, Anonymous Jokerman said...

I had many discussions with egyptian friends, most of whom are middle & high class educated & intelligent folk, about the Holocaust but they all seem to reiterate the same thing, 6 million is far too big a number or that they should have all been killed or that their figures werent as high as that, was probably a few hundred thousand & sometimes the generous would put it at 2 million. As atrocious as the statement, the failure by the educated to listen & reason is just as bad.
- They forget that European countries had stats & consensus so the jewish minorities there were known by approximate figures.
- They forget that Nazis did round up the jews & ordered them into ghettos that they werent supposed to leave, like a ghetto arrest.
-They forget that there were loads of documents seized by the allies that contained actual numbers in camps & orders to move around from city to the concentration camp. Do they think the nazis just put their hands on an X number & killed them, forgetting that the nazis knew where to find them in which cities were their numbers. So for example, if a country said it had a 1 million jew citizens, then the nazis after overtaking it rounded up about 100,000 then they know something is terribly wrong & many have scaped or hiding.
- They forget that after the war ended, the few who survived either immigrated to Israel, US or UK..some did go back to their homes but the numbers were reduced significantly.
- They forget that Gypsies, Homosexuals, mentally & physically challenged & political opposition were also killed alongside the jews.
- They forget that if these figures were made up by zionists or jews as they claim then Europeans are simply idiots to believe them without proof or any sort, they think europeans and americans believe anything given to them as some people do.
- They forget that the WW2 killed more than 50 Million humans. Soviet Union suffered casualties over 20 Million.
- They forget that they deny the suffering of many who had nothing to do with Israel or zionists, they were ordinary folk who were killed for their race, not religion, as they also forget that there were those who were killed simply because one of their parents or grandparents was a jew in the past.
The deniers always refer to Irving who denies the numbers, which is inevitable to find at least one who has a theory but again no solid proof as his theory is simply overwhelmingly refuted.Those who mention him should have read his works or be very careful not to follow anything he says as later he might come up with another theory that embarasses them.

At 1/31/2006 06:19:00 AM, Blogger Twosret said...

Does Blair have a temper? This is really a surprise that he got upset :)

The man is as cold as block of ice and there is no warm part of his body but his brain that Bush screwed with big time :)

At 1/31/2006 07:45:00 AM, Blogger The Sphinx said...

"they were ordinary folk who were killed for their race, not religion.."

Jokerman, you can't refer to Jews as a race. There's no such thing as the "Jewish race". They have no special physical features that distinct them from others. There's a Mongol race and an African race and a Caucasian race, but no Jewish Race, Muslim Race, etc..

Unfortunately that was one of the mistakes the Nazis did. They singled them out as a cancerous and inferior race, although you couldn't tell a Jew from a non-Jew without knowing their religion.

At 1/31/2006 08:53:00 AM, Anonymous Andrew Brehm said...

"Unfortunately that was one of the mistakes the Nazis did. They singled them out as a cancerous and inferior race,"

Nope, that was not a mistake. If Jews were a race, the crime would be the same. Whether the Jews are a race or not clearly doesn't make a difference, hence believing that they are when they are not, is not a mistake for the purpose of this task.

But let me shed some light on why many Arabs won't believe the higher number of victims of the Nazis.

This is only what I think, it's not necessarily true. And I don't know many Arabs either.

But it seems to me that Arab nationalists in particular and many Arabs in general have to believe in three ideas to allow them to dislike or hate Israel:

1. Arabs did not mistreat Jews.

2. Israel is a colony of Europeans and Americans.

3. Pan-Arabism cannot possibly have bad consquences.

Number 1 requires silence about the existence of sephardic Jews from Arab countries. And in fact, the Jewish refugees from Arab countries are rarely mentioned in the news.

Number 2 requires large numbers of European Jews to create Israel's population. Thus the fewer Jews the Nazis killed, the more likely becomes principle #2 and the easier it is to prove principle #1 (by allowing to ignore the sephardic population of Israel).

Number 3 requires other examples of nationalist movements to be something other than a symbol for pure evil. This is an easy one. If Pan-Germanism was evil it is a lot easier to believe that Pan-Arabism could also be evil; especially considering the connections between the two movements (Michael 'Aflaq and the Jerusalem Mufti whatshisname).

At 1/31/2006 08:56:00 AM, Anonymous Andrew Brehm said...

I think it also noteworthy that our friend the Sandmonkey seems to strongly support Egyptian patriotism rather than Arab nationalism.

And patriotism is a very strong antidote to nationalism.

They are not the same. Patriotism is love for one's country; nationalism is love for one's people. The first is a cultural thing and has no problem with minorities and other countries. The second tends to have such problems.

At 1/31/2006 09:26:00 AM, Blogger waterdragon52 said...


You are right and you are wrong. There are Jews in every colour of the rainbow, from pasty-faced Ashkenazim to black Ethiopian Falashas and every hue in between. But it turns out that 40% of Ashkenazim descended from four women and the same identifying genomes have also turned up, to a lesser degree, in Sephardic Jews.

But yes, Hitler's genocidal inspiration was most definitely based on religiously-founded prejudices.

At 1/31/2006 09:37:00 AM, Blogger waterdragon52 said...

Anyway, as to Sandmonkey's larger point about Blair refusing to be drawn in by Ahmedinajad's invitation, not sure what the appropriate response would be. A Canadian judge hearing the Holocaust denial charges against Ernst Zundel declared at the outset that Zundel and his lawyer could take it on judicial notice that the Holocaust did happen and would not be subject for debate in his court but rather whether Zundel's activities violated Canadian laws against hate speech, and Zundel was duly convicted. This wouldn't do in this instance, however. What might have been appropriate would have been for Blair to decline but offer to send a recognized expert or teams of experts, say of Deborah Lippert's calibre, who took on David Irving successfully, to present the loonies with factual evidence as opposed to the silly conjecture offered up by the deniers. Such a team might also be appropriately bolstered by experts on the role played by Muslim countries during the Holocaust itself to address Ahmadinejad's submission that only Christian Europe sought to eradicate its Jewish populations. It is not well known, but the last Shah's father was a great fan of Hitler and even renamed Persia to allude to an Aryan connection at Herr Schickelgruber's suggestion.

At 1/31/2006 09:41:00 AM, Anonymous Andrew Brehm said...

"It is not well known, but the last Shah's father was a great fan of Hitler and even renamed Persia to allude to an Aryan connection at Herr Schickelgruber's suggestion."

He renamed Persia because "Land of the Aryans" (i.e. "Iran") was always the Persian word for the country. Persia is apparently from what the Greeks called their enemy.

But there is some truth if what you say about the Shah's father. That he was a fan I don't know, but the son did replace him to make sure that Iran would not join the Nazis.

(This is a fact conveniently forgotten by the left who try to paint the late Shah as a right-wing dictator put into power by the CIA in 1953.)

At 1/31/2006 10:33:00 AM, Blogger Jordan said...

The president of Iran can kiss the most kosher part of my ass!

And for all those wondering if Jews are a race or religion, its a tough question...

1. Jews do have genetically simular traits because of our custom not to recruit gentiles into the faith. You will never see a jew go door to door and say "have you heard the truth about moses" :)

2. Most jews, including myself, are secular. We only go to temple to find other other jews to date! (ok, a little bit of an exageration). Even though I don't believe in the supersticion I enjoy the culture... specially the humour, work ethics, our weekly zionist overlord meetings!

Its probably easiest to consider jews as a "civilization". A little bit of genetics, religion, and culture all rolled into one tight package. :)

I hope Iran does go through with this crap and broadcast it live. That should put an end to the idea "we don't hate jews, we just hate zionist" bullsh*t.

At 1/31/2006 10:53:00 AM, Anonymous Jokerman said...

SPhinx, i know damn well what you said, I did not mean Race as in a group of people with certain features or attributes, but as a group of people with varying degrees of racial features but are placed together under one category.
Semantics play a part of this misunderstanding.
Hitler persecuted jews mostly on racial prejudism not religious foundations.

At 1/31/2006 11:27:00 AM, Blogger programmer craig said...


"They are not the same. Patriotism is love for one's country; nationalism is love for one's people. The first is a cultural thing and has no problem with minorities and other countries. The second tends to have such problems."

I usally like your posts, but the concepts of "nationalism" and "patriotism" have both been distorted by liberal political correctness. They are both "evil" and if one is considered more evil than the other, I'd say that is patriotism.

Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

Function: noun

: love for or devotion to one's country

Function: noun

: loyalty and devotion to a nation

: a sense of national consciousness exalting one nation above all others and placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranational groups

The first definition for BOTH is virtually identical, Andrew. The second defintion for Nationalism (not that patriotism has no second definition) was added to describe nationalist movements. It's not really clear to me why there isn't a second equally perjorative definition fro patriotism.

In my opinion, all good citizens of a state are nationalists, but not necessarily patriots. What's the percentage of people you have met who don't put their own country first, and every other country second? I haven't actually ever met anybody like that (including on blogs) as far as I've been able to tell. Even immigrants seem to retain their loyalty to their country of origin.

Anyway... this is not a good discussion. Western liberals have decided that both concepts are "bad" and I'm not going to argue with what liberals believe. "My country is no better than your country" or "My country is no more important than your country" or "I don't care any more about my country than I care about your country" sound like very nice ideas, but real human beings just don't think that way. They only (sometimes) pretend that they do.

At 1/31/2006 11:34:00 AM, Anonymous Don Cox said...

Sending a team of real experts to this "conference" would be a waste of time, because they would not be allowed to present the evidence fully. They would be given ten minutes on the last afternoon of the meeting.

At 1/31/2006 06:17:00 PM, Blogger Ron Larson said...

Has anyone ever heard the old saying:

"One should never attempt to argue with idiots or crazy people. They'll just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."

So Blaire shoud not even dignify Iran with a response. The idea of writing a letter, or sending others is even stupider.

At 1/31/2006 11:15:00 PM, Blogger Scorekeeper said...

The Brits can't help themselves they're so Politically Correct that they feel that it's important to dignify the Iranian Mullahs and their anti-semitic frothings.


Post a Comment

Links to this post:

Create a Link

<< Home