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Rantings of a Sandmonkey

Be forewarned: The writer of this blog is an extremely cynical, snarky, pro-US, secular, libertarian, disgruntled sandmonkey. If this is your cup of tea, please enjoy your stay here. If not, please sod off

Sunday, January 29, 2006

A message to those who demand a Denmark boycott

STOP BEING RETARDED!
Ok, now that I have got that out of the way, let me inform you the reason why I am giving out this message. I am guessing some background to the issue is necessary after all. Here is a very brief one: A danish newspaper published 12 cartoons depicting Prophet Mohamed, which in turn pissed off the islamic community in Denmark and caused an outbreak of outrage against the printing of those cartoons, since it is forbidden to draw the prophet in any way. The arab governments, eager to appease the growing islamist undercurrent, decided to jump in on the action and demand an apology from the Danish government and some sort of punishment exacted against the newspaper over the cartoons. The Danish Prime minister naturally thought the delegation that met him was retarded, since Denmark is a country where there is Freedom of speech, and the Prime minister can not just reprimend people for printing a cartoon. This came as a shock to the delegation, who thought the PM of Denmark was going to throw the reproters and cartoonists in jail like they do in our countries, and only encoruaged the outrage apparently: Death threats have been made against the cartoonist of course, and calls to avenge the "honor of the prophet" started to pile up all over the world. Now, the jordanian parliament just called for the punishment of the cartoonists who drew the cartoons, The International Union for Muslim Scholars threatend to call for a world-wide boycott of danish goods unless the Danish government "does something", and apparently some people went ahead with the boycott anyway, drafting a website for it and providing a list of danish products that no allah-fearing-muslim should buy. This naturally sparked a debate between the egyptian bloggers: there are those who think that Islam and the prophet need us to defend them, those who think that boycotting danish goods is fairplay if they are offended and those- like me- who think the whole thing is freaking retarded. And since I am dealing with retards here, let me try to break my reasons down in simple sentences for them to understand. So bear with me, ok? Ok, reasons why a boycott is retarded: 1) You are boycotting the wrong people: The people who published those cartoons work in a danish newspaper. They do not own danish factories, make danish cheese or toys, or any of those nifty products that they have on that list. In essence you are punishing everyone and everything danish because what one newspaper printed, and yet, you are not really punishing the newspaper. Not really. Unless they are exporting their newspaper to Egypt, which they are not, you have less than 0% of actually affecting them, hurting them or punishing them. In short, you are preventing yourself from eating some really good cheese for no reason at all. You want to hurt the people who did this? Sue the newspaper. Sue them everywhere, for any reason you like. That should affect them directly. This boycott won't. 2) This will accomplish nothing, except getting more people pissed at muslims: Given that the " we are outraged" movement has decided to go all out with their speeches, it was inevitable that some crazy hotheads decided to issue death threats against the newspaper and the cartoonists. Yes, cause nothing says we are peacefull tolerant people like death threats and boycotting a whole country. I've yet to see a single christian group get mad at the Rolling Stones for having Kanye West depicting Jesus on their cover, and you know why? because they understand that there is something called free speech and freedom of expression. That it's not always pleasant. That some people will try to provoke a reaction out of you by offending you with something like this. And you know what? Muslims fall for it every single time and then the crazy bastards amongst them go all the way and do something stupid. Like the Van Gogh murder in 2004. Remember how good that made us look in Holland? What? You want to go through that whole thing again, and drag us with you for the ride? Thanks but no thanks moron. Our reputation is already bad as it is, and we don't need anymore help sullying it. 3) The Prophet doesn't need your defense: If you truly believe that the Mohamed is god's prophet and that god exhalted him beyond all other prophets, then do you really think anything that anyone will say about him will make an ounce of difference? Will the sun rise from the west because someone said it does, or will it rise from the east regardless? Do you get my point here? Do you understand that cartoons depicting the prophet will not hurt him in any way, not will they harm his image? What is it you are afraid of? Someone looking at the cartoon depicting him and going "Ohh, that Mohamed fella really doesn't look pleasant. He must suck as a person if a cartoon shows him with bombs on his head. There is no way I will convert to Islam now, and from this day forward I will fully support the bombing of its followers."? What, cause cartoons hold so much power over people? Or are you afraid that muslims will look at those cartoons and go "Gee, our prophet doesn't look good here. I am done with Islam. I am going to turn Hindu and worship a cow instead"? Or is it his reputation that you are afraid will get tarnished because oif that cartoon? That somehow, someone will make an uneducated and totally ignorant judgment on the prophet and the religion because of 12 cartoons in a newspaper? Well, if that's the case, answer this question for me: What is more likely to tarnish the reputation of Islam: 12 cartoons in a newspaper, or calls for punishment and death threats to the people who penned those cartoons? Which damages our reputation more? Are you getting the point or do I need to draw it out for you? So please, will all of you pious fuckheads who think you will score brownie points with God over your boycott stop being retarded? A danish boycott will do nothing, the same way the american products boycott did nothing, and any future boycott will do nothing. Grow up. Accept other people's opinion even if they disagree with yours, the same way you want them to accept your opinions. And next time you see something that offends your muslim sensibilities, whether it's a movie, a cartoon, or a piglet mug, do us all a favor and just look the other way. And if you are really mad, then take a xanax or count to 10 or something. Or even better, go get laid. Find a danish woman and sleep with her. Now that's revenge. Just whatever you do, don't do something stupid, or encourage people to do something stupid, or use big words such as "demanding the Mohamed's Ummah would rise up to defend his honor" when you don't undertsand them or their consequences. And remember, prophets exhalted by God do not get tarnished by humans, nor do they need human defenders, especially ones that are as stupid as you. Thank you, and have a pleasant evening, The Sandmonkey PS: Roba has historic islamic illustrations of the Prophet from different islamic cultures. Check them out, and don't boycott her. No death threats either, ok?

144 Comments:

At 1/29/2006 06:42:00 AM, Blogger Crazy Girl said...

He he..You mean I shouldn't draw a picture and label it Prophet Mohmmed and put it on a tee shirt? Damn.. People are so dumb..People are really bored these days..Now we they have to pick on the cool Danish people..I bet they are cool people!

 
At 1/29/2006 07:01:00 AM, Anonymous Andrew Brehm said...

I never even heard of the cartoons before so many Muslims flipped because of them. Somebody had a real interest in letting everybody know about the cartoons and it wasn't the Danish newspaper.

As for Yasmina or Jess: Indeed. You shouldn't draw a picture of Muhammed and put it on a t-shirt. It's impolite. But it is your right to do it! And nobody has a right to stop you from doing it. I myself would support your right to do so, but not your decision to do so.

 
At 1/29/2006 07:07:00 AM, Blogger Roba said...

There you go! Why can't we have more logical people in this world?

 
At 1/29/2006 07:21:00 AM, Blogger Tomanbay said...

have you taken a look at the list of products to boycott....these guys are either really stuoid, or really manipulative...LEGO is british, Nido is from nestle, so it is Swiss, Sun top, Sun Cola, and Sun Quick are Saudi...(have you seen the guy on the kinder box!!)...and then they moved on to the generic..there is an item called make-up...another hair-gel..another deodrant...there are no names provided..it is as if they would like us to boycott make-up, and deodrants (I dont mean me with us regarding the make up thing, but you get the idea!)
Those guys really lost it!

 
At 1/29/2006 07:23:00 AM, Blogger The Sphinx said...

The idea of boycott is indeed dumb. BUT the newspaper did a really bad mistake. There are borders even for freedom of speech, believe it or not. Do you really think it's justified to offend hundreds of millions of people worldwide in the name of freedom of speech and press? Not only did they do that, but they even put up a stereotyped and Wrong (with a capital W) portrait in those pics. All these people take such a thing really personally (and believe me, I myself was quite pissed).
You know, I read this book called "The lost honour of Katharina Blum". There was a film to it, I don't know whether you saw it or not. It shows how much the media can verbally obliterate somebody's image by distorting the truth, lying about certain happenings, and turning quotes around so that they say the opposite of what was originally meant, all just to put up a good sensational story, totally ruining a person's life and image in the process. Is THAT what you call freedom of speech?

That's not freedom anymore. That's bullshit.

Rant over.

 
At 1/29/2006 07:55:00 AM, Blogger SillyBahrainiGirl said...

Now that ALL the problems in the Arab, Islamic and Undeveloped world are over, we have nothing more pressing to waste our time, energy and very limited brain cells on other than this issue.

hehe.. boycott indeed. What happened to the movement to boycott US goods? A consumer society like ours just knows how to yup, eat, sleep and fart.

Next topic please!

 
At 1/29/2006 08:22:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi Sandmonkey

Can I try to explain what this issue looks like frrom the danish perspective ?
At least from my danish perspective, which I think is pretty representative.

First off: these were really not mean or inflammatory cartoons in our eyes, they were really pretty mild. There is a long danish tradition of satire and both Jesus, the royal family and members of the government have been subjected to much worse, so we are not sparing our own.

Second: The intent was not to humiliate muslims. The cartoons were published as part of an article about how freedom of speech is threatened because people are afraid to say or publish certain things related to islam in the wake of the van Gogh murder. The paper then went out and found 12 people that were willingh to draw a cartoon of Muhamed in order to see if this was true. The original impetus actually came from a childrens book about Muhamed written by a left wing islam-friendly author, which was apparently unable to find an illustrator unless he could be anonymous.

Third: This was a danish language newspaper largely only circulated in Denmark. We don't search through Jordanian, Egyptian or Saudi newspapers in order to find stuff to be angry about, though I am sure we could find for instance vilely antisemitic or women-hating statements a plenty that would nnot fly in Denmark, so when did muslim states get a veto over what we write in our newspapers ?

I am so angry abouut this that I am literally shaking and I think also that that is a pretty normal feeling right now. That, or bemused incredulity. Last time danish consumers had a boycot campaign it was about the french making nuclear weapons tests. A couple of drawings in a newspaper are apparentlyan issue of the same magnitude...

Kjartan, Denmark (though I am ctually in the US right now)

PS: LEGO at least IS danish, I don't know about the other products mentioned above

PPS: I do recognize of course that a commercial boycot is a legitimate weapon. Muslims can of course buy whatever products they choose...

 
At 1/29/2006 08:47:00 AM, Blogger Crazy Girl said...

People are just idiots..If something offends them than they should just not look at it, but no now were going to call it a disgrace to Islam.. What the hell is wrong with people.. People have a right to say what they want and draw what they want. So the fuck what is someone drew a cartoon of the prophet..I mean yes its disrespectful but so what..You mean to tell me that every single Muslim is perfect and they never disrespected someone or someone else's religion? When Muslims hit their women or marry four wives with out telling the first first wife they are good Muslims and they have the right to be pissed over a cartoon..I don't get why they are pissed off to begin with.. No body is perfect and no one is plain old good.. So nobody has the right to be pissed off over what someone else does..

As for a boycott..Monkey see monkey do? Just because some wackjob got offended the whole Muslim community will call for a boycott..Nobody can think for them selves anymore? God I hate morons...ok enough venting

 
At 1/29/2006 08:47:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let alone all the points you mentioned, but I'm interested in one in particular:

Sandmonkey: A danish boycott will do nothing, the same way the american products boycott did nothing, and any future boycott will do nothing.

Well, I won't start blabbering bullshit from the tip of my mouth and post them on your blog. Rather, I'm gona let the facts speak for themselves; here are some examples of succesful boycotts:

1- The boycott of South Africa by a large number of countries during its apartheid period (result: end of apartheid period).

2- The montgomery bus boycott by African Americans during the Civil Rights Movement. Theme: calling for the end of racial segregation on buses (result: end of racial segregation on the buses by government's ruling that such act was unconstitutional).

I am not against Dans; but I am for sure against any derogatory depiction of Prophet Muhammad.
If we will not stand up for ourselves, who would?

What is happening is a logical reprisal against people mocking Prophet Muhammad. In my opinion, none of the boycotters seeks the personal harm to any Dan. All they want is due process for harm done!
Now is that too hard to deliver?

Boycotting is a form
of legal unarmed resistance. One should advocate such non-violent actions (or at least be neutral about them)
, when in parallel, condemning forms of armed violence.

Thank you.

 
At 1/29/2006 09:14:00 AM, Anonymous Jokerman said...

I would like to remind some people who are rabid boycotters of the Abraha incident, the year of the Elephant when Mohamed was born. His (mohamed´s) grandfather, Abdel Mottleb, went to Abraha who drove an army with some elephants to bring down the building in Mecca known as the Kaaba, to ask him back his confiscated sheep & camels. Abraha was surprised that Abdel Mottelb didnt plead with him to refrain from demolishing the Kaaba , for which Abdel Mottleb replied back: The House has a God to protect it, i just want my sheep back!
I think the message is profound & direct.

 
At 1/29/2006 09:31:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I myself is also a dane. So here is my perspective on things.

Kjartan is right in what most danes think of this. But the thing is, that if are not allowed to critizice, make fun of and discuss certain aspects of life like religion, politics and so on, then what good is freedom of speech? To make fun of Muhammed is just the same as making fun og Hitler, Jesus, Bush, whoever! They are/was all human beings. The respect of a person those not legally shield the person from satire...

And remember danes are not muslims, so why submit to islamic laws?

 
At 1/29/2006 09:33:00 AM, Anonymous Jokerman said...

To Anon
The Boycott against South Africa succeeded yes, but laregly because it was an International boycott & most effectively due to Industrial powerhouse countries.
That stupid boycott only speaks of how narrow minded & shortsighted those in favour of it are.
Should India boycott Muslims countries if a few ridicule hindus & cows?
Please note the colossal amount of books published in the Islamic world that challenges christian beliefs & insults sometimes...so what do you suggest, base foreign policy on religious fervour?
If muslims were responsible & mature, they wouldnt go after such ridiculous affairs, like salman rushdie´s satanic verses.
The best is to try to behave & act civilised & just ignore the few prejudiced who mock, because there was & always shall be mockers & you cannot go on boycotting the world.
grow up & dont mix boycotting past incidents with this ludicrous event, because i suggest you start to boycott computers & anything associated with europe, america or china even.

 
At 1/29/2006 09:36:00 AM, Anonymous Abdelstar alslimat said...

It is all about respect!!!!!!

 
At 1/29/2006 09:37:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Originally posted by Sand Man

....calls to avenge the "honor of the prophet" started to pile up all over the world.

What honor would that be? Any Muslim want to answer that question?

jonas

 
At 1/29/2006 09:58:00 AM, Blogger Crazy Girl said...

Hmm as a muslim myself I can't quite say...so no answer from me..

 
At 1/29/2006 10:14:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

To Anonymous:

There is a fine line between freedom of speech and derogating one's beliefs.

To Jokerman:
Foreign policy?
Boycotting is the choice of the poeple my friend. Although there were official actions following the matter, but, on the other hand, boycotting was done solely in a form of
solidarity between the people of the Arabian region.

Should Inida boycott Muslims if they ridicule Hindus and Cows?
I don't know. The sole decision maker in this case are Indians (not Muslims, nor Danes.)

Jokerman, in Jordan, my country, foreign policy is not based whatsoever on religioun.
This boycott is merely the choice of the people to act, in a civilised manner, against something they do not agree with. The government did not in any case force citizens to boycott anything.

I agree with you that we are not civlised; but isn't it you who are all angry because the people are
practicing their freedom of choice afterall - the boycott. Isn't this the western democracy we are obliged to embrace?

Books insulting Christianity?
Now this has to be from Hollywood.
Please name one Jokerman.
5% of Jordanians are Christians and Muslims embrace them as they embrace us. We together live in harmony and respect each other's beliefs.

Thank you.

 
At 1/29/2006 10:14:00 AM, Blogger Ahmed said...

Similarly, two days ago, Mohammed Jazairy wrote this column, which was one of the few good things I read about the subject among all the crap in our newspapers

 
At 1/29/2006 10:25:00 AM, Blogger Ala'a Ibrahim said...

I don't boycott someone because he thinks in a different way, even if I find that way offensive to me, if so I think I should boycott almost all the planet.
I may boycott a Zionist company because it supports our killers, I may boycott Al-Qa3edah, or anybody related to it, because they kill people, but I don't boycott someone for being different.
And even if somebody offended me, I just won't be that crybaby, and oh no he offended me, I want to boycott him; that is just ridiculous.

 
At 1/29/2006 10:34:00 AM, Anonymous AhmedT said...

I'm gonna make this brief.

1 - The Boycott did what it was supposed to do which is pull an apology out of the people responsible for publishing the cartoons. Please refer to This Blog Entry for full details.

2 - Boycotts are a peaceful way of expressing anger and discontent. Google "define:Boycott" and you will get a plethora of examples and definitions of how this very strong political pressure tool is and could be utilized.

3 - Some People, obviously you're one of them, mistake freedom of expression as freedom to insult. It is one thing to be respectfully be critical of islam and show how it may be dangerous or anything you may believe it is, and its another to just decide to offend 1.5 billion people by humiliating the image of the person who they believe is the Messenger of God to them.

I'm sorry, but describing everyone else who holds a different opinion than yours as a RETARD is incongruent with your initial point about "Freedom of Speech". Either you maintain integrity and apply respectful judgment to your opponents or you will just have to live with the image you paint for yourself as someone who "Talks the Talk" but when the rubber hits the road can't "Walk the Walk"..

 
At 1/29/2006 10:43:00 AM, Anonymous Allan said...

I am a Dane, and would like to add to the comments here.

In my humble opinion, the newspaper which published the drawings of the prophet made a really dumb mistake. I am certain that they didn´t have a clou as to what they were stirring up.

They were trying to make a statement about freedom of speech - and I am not saying that they are not allowed to do so. The law gives them the right. But I also think that if you should insult people, you should have a very, very good reason to do so. And this newspaper didn´t have that good reason, I think.

They were exercising their right to speak - but they forgot that they also had the right to think, which they forgot.

 
At 1/29/2006 10:50:00 AM, Anonymous believer said...

Damped if we do!!! Damped if we don’t.
How many more centuries of ignorance and total insecurity should we go ,before we know it dose not matter a bit ,you and your faith is above every days chit chat .
God ,pleas spare us , and inspire us to be more secured as believers ,and mind what is really good for us .

 
At 1/29/2006 10:56:00 AM, Blogger The Sandmonkey said...

Ahmed T, this will be briefer:

1)You saying that the danes apologized, but this boycott is still going on? and that's not retarded?

2) I agree. But this is a boycott of a country over a cartoon in a newspaper published in it. That's not retarded?

3)Freedom of speech can be insulting boy, it's why it's always opposed. I am not saying anyone who holds a different opinion to me is retraded, I am just saying that people who boycott a country over a cartoon are retarded, people who issue death threats over a cartoon are reatrded, people who think that a cartoon will tarnish mohamed's image are retarded and people who continue boycotting it after they get their apology are retarded. Ohh yeah, and you are also retarded. Not basing that any facts though besides this message you just left me. I guess you can call it my humble opinion.

 
At 1/29/2006 11:18:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe people should be asking why it is offensive to draw a picture of Mohammed. People draw pictures of Jesus all the time, and I don't imagine even one is bang on. Maybe people should stop accepting things they are told without questioning who made up the rule in the first place.

Maybe if Muslims do not like 'Freedom of Speech', they should move back where they have none. Maybe the Danes should take away the Muslims' rights to voice their indignation over the cartoons - how would they like that. The Muslims just seem to want to have their cake and eat it too - it doesn't work that way.

And not that I am advocating taking Muslims' rights away to voice their opinions; it is just that they don't like it on the other foot, and quite frankly, I for one am sick of the bull crap.

Joanne

 
At 1/29/2006 11:26:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

How do you Muslims (some, not all) think it makes people feel when you continually refer to people of other religions as infidels. It isn't like Christians go around referring to Muslims as heathens. Maybe some Muslims who live in glass houses should quit throwing stones.

I am sick of the hypocrisy!

Joanne

 
At 1/29/2006 11:47:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

from another dane,

good idea a boycott like that. It will put a lot of your fellow muslims out of their jobs in danish production plants.

We cannot afford having to feed a lot of unenployed people so we will undoubtedly have to return them to the repressive regimes they com form.

poor poor muslims, when will you start using your brain instead of your honour?

pane

 
At 1/29/2006 12:29:00 PM, Anonymous AhmedT said...

Sandmonkey,

1) I agree with you about the fact that continuing the boycott is wrong. I wouldn't use your word of choice though.

2) Its not just a "cartoon", its a cartoon that happened to insult 1.5 billion people who are theoretically free to choose who to trade with.

3) I also agree that freedom of speech "can be insulting" but does it have to be if the goal is to be constructive?

4) Issuing death threats for cartoons or anything is completely unacceptable so no conflicts there at all.

5) Don't also forget that for the majority of people this is a very emotional and sensitive subject. wether you agree with it having to be that way or not is a different story, for the moment its just a fact.

6) Do you consider your humble opinion about my "retarded-ness" to be freedom of speech? It certainly can be, but again does it have to be given the fact that I took the time to read your opinion and politely express my differences with you? I'll leave that to your moral judgment.

 
At 1/29/2006 01:23:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Finally SM you're having rational and sensible people from both sides having an intelligent debate (let's just hope scorekeeper and papa ray keep their infinitely nonsensical wisdom to themselves this time), although I don't disagree with you 100% on this one, I think that AhmedT has articulated a better argument. And yasmina if you're trying to be funny or cool, well, I think you end up being quiet silly.

 
At 1/29/2006 01:51:00 PM, Blogger Crazy Girl said...

I love being silly.. whats wrong with that..Silly is way better than being cool or funny..

Hey if they are that bored and have nothing better to do than to be mad over something stupid than I have all the time in the world to make silly comments.. :P

 
At 1/29/2006 02:11:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yasmina, at least I'm glad you took it lightly and that you didn't get offended as before, seems that your having a less sucky day this time.

Mohamed

 
At 1/29/2006 02:22:00 PM, Blogger Crazy Girl said...

Its only a blog ya Mohamed..How offended do you think I'd be?..you have a right to say what you want and think as do I.. no harm done..I just don't like nasty attacks because I'm not viscous to anyone so I don't expect to be treated that way.. I say what I want to say and khlas.. We don't have to think highly of each other but we don't have to be bitter about it..

 
At 1/29/2006 02:37:00 PM, Blogger Tomanbay said...

well yasmina, I'd hate to steal your thunder...but here is my bid for the silliest comment to this topic (some topics just lend themselves to silliness)
BOYCOTT AMERICA!! SAVE FOOTBALL

PS I'm not that air of an head (!!), I'm a football fan, but I have a point!

 
At 1/29/2006 03:30:00 PM, Anonymous Andrew Brehm said...

"I may boycott a Zionist company because it supports our killers"

What exactly is a "Zionist company"? Do you mean a Jewish company? Is it not time for the Arab world to stop boycotting Jewish companies?

You did it before Israel existed, you did it when Israel and all the Jews nearly died, and you are doing it now, that Israel occupies the Arab part of Palestine (and effectively stopped the constant wars to drive the Jews into the sea).

Do you think you accomplish a lot by doing so? Do you think Israelis are more likely to trust that the Arabs won't kill them when the occupation would end (after all, some keep trying). Do you think a boycott of "Zionist companies" makes the Jews reconsider their opinion of Arabs?

I somehow don't see how Israelis would think that ending the occupation that seems to have stopped the large-scale attacks is such a good idea, considering that Arab behaviour hasn't changed.

What are you trying to accomplish? Do you want the occupation to end or do you want to punish the Jews?

If it's the one, I suggest you are on the wrong path. If it's the other, then I'm afraid society hasn't changed in the last 60 years. And what have we accomplished then?

I was born in Germany. We also tried boycotting the Jews before we tried to kill them all. Some Germans boycott them again.

What have we accomplished, what will we accomplish with that?

 
At 1/29/2006 03:49:00 PM, Blogger Crazy Girl said...

Lol Tomanbay

We can share the silliness there is plenty to go around.. :P

 
At 1/29/2006 04:05:00 PM, Blogger Crazy Girl said...

The way I see it is people are always going to be stupid, people are always going to be miserable and pick apart each other because it gives them a sense of purpose in life. People will always tear other people apart to make themselves feel better. War is never going to end and people use religion as an excuse when its all about bullshit to begin with..Islam is suppose to be peaceful, why didnt they just send the newspaper a letter saying they were deeply hurt about the cartoon and end it at that..Why are they trying to boycott and punnish all the danish people because of one person.. Please!!
So I just learn that is someone needs to be mean they are doing so they can feel better.. Just let it go..

I shall be silly,vent and say all the stupid things I want to say.. At least I'm trying to be happy... What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

 
At 1/29/2006 04:41:00 PM, Blogger programmer craig said...

AhmedT,

"1) I agree with you about the fact that continuing the boycott is wrong."

I disagree with you about this. A boycott is not "wrong" people have the freedom to spend their own money however they see fit. It may be silly and counter-productive, but it's not *wrong*.

"2) Its not just a "cartoon", its a cartoon that happened to insult 1.5 billion..."

It's still "just a cartoon," Ahmed.

"3) I also agree that freedom of speech "can be insulting" but does it have to be if the goal is to be constructive?"

Why are you now contradicting your earlier comments? Free speech coulnd't be insulting a few hours ago, now it can be?

And who decided you get to choose what other people's goals should be, when they excercise their FREEDOMS?

You seem to have a very basic misunderstanding about what that word means, Ahmed.

"4) Issuing death threats for cartoons or anything is completely unacceptable so no conflicts there at all."

And yet, you still attack the cartoonists who have been threatened with death, and defend the people doing the threatening...

"5) Don't also forget that for the majority of people this is a very emotional and sensitive subject."

No, it's not. There are more atheists in China than there are moslems in the whole world. How much do the chinese care about these cartoons?

"6) Do you consider your humble opinion about my "retarded-ness" to be freedom of speech? It certainly can be, but again does it have to be given the fact that I took the time to read your opinion and politely express my differences with you? I'll leave that to your moral judgment."

Again, I point out that you seem to be having some difficulty with the concept of freedom, Ahmed. If everybody had to self-censor themselves so that they'd be absolutely sure not to offend anyone else, we'd all be mute.

You don't have any more right to demand that other people show respect for Islam, than I do to demand that other people show respect for Christianity, Ahmed.

I agree with you. The cartoons were disrespectful. They were in poor taste. But the bottom line is... so what? Boycott if you like... I'll support you in that. But enough with the ridiculous claims that those cartoonists were not within their rights publishing those cartoons. Such claims turn whatver sympathy people may have had with moslems on this issue into scorn. Is that what Islam wants to offer the rest of the world? Repression?

 
At 1/29/2006 05:01:00 PM, Blogger Jordan said...

On the Simpsons...

You can make fun of:

Jesus (Flanders)
Jews (Krusty)
Budha (Gets Arrested)
Hindus (Apu & Manjula)
Gniesh (Homer at Apus wedding)
Mormons (Mistaken for Aliens)
Omish (Electrical Fire)
Menenites (Gambles Dice)
Catholics (Nice Dress)

But there is not one Muslim character on the Simpsons.

After 15 seasons, there was only 1 reference to Islam, and it was usually tame in relative terms.

The writers know the rules, you can make fun of every religion except one.

 
At 1/29/2006 05:19:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here is what the "retarded" head of the Organization of the Islamic Conference said with regard to all this (sounds pretty fair to me)...

"Ihsanoglu acknowledged the conflicting issues of press freedom and respect for other religions but, he said, Danish authorities had a responsibility to control such material which incited hatred and religious intolerance.

“There are no two opinions about respecting freedom of expression... Muslims have no problem in accepting the right of the electronic and print media to exercise their freedoms without any let or hindrance,” Ihsanoglu said.

“Muslims strongly support exercising freedom of conscience as one of the principles that is completely in consonance with the Western concept of freedom of expression. However, it has to be exercised by taking into account respect for the values of those with whom one may disagree. Superimposing the right to revile other religions and prophets goes against the essence of freedom of expression, as no democracy, legal or political system allows the preaching of hate and insult for the sacred values and symbols of others.”

The OIC chief appealed to Muslims to stay calm. “We ask members of the Islamic nation to express their opinions in a civilized and peaceful manner and not to fall into mistakes that are unworthy of the Prophet (pbuh),” he added.

In a related development, a recent poll conducted in Copenhagen found a majority of Danes against their government and media apologizing to Muslims for the cartoons. The Epinion Research Institute in Denmark questioned 579 Danes for Danish radio. The institute reported that 79 percent said that Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen should not apologize on Denmark’s behalf; 18 percent said he should, and 3 percent were undecided."


Muslims: from what i have read of the muslims who 'don't care' about this issue is that they don't care precisely because they know so little about the religion they pay lip service to, case in point is "Yas or Jess"'s reply. So Yas or Jess, i guess Danes are not such cool people after all.

Danish People: the problem is not that you make fun of Islam per se, but as you admitted that Danes and the rest of the world it seems (the bloggers on here included), believe that Freedom of Expression is best used to do what 4 and 5 year olds do, make fun of each other. Prophet Muhammad, may the prayers of peace and blessings be upon him, the man you are so proud of making fun of, forbade muslims from making fun of any religion. So we also denounce your making fun of Jesus, peace be upon him. There is a difference between freedom of expression and the higher concept of 'respect.'

Jordan: i have watched almost every simpson episode and they have poked honest fun at "muslims", not Islam, a big difference. They also did not make fun of Hinduism but rather showed how most Americans actually have the idiotic brainpower of Homer Simpson and think that its ok to do so, and often do. And they are not making fun of christianity as much as they are making fun of how christians act, so your analysis is a superficial.

Sandmonkey, i am not sure why you post stuff like this or support certain bloggers/groups on your blog, mostly neocons. But as a white american, i can tell you what most of these white americans call Arabs, no matter how much you try to sell-out your culture: they call you a "sand nigger."

MalcolmX said it best when responding live on a television show in the 1960's to another African american: "Do you know what these white people call a negro with a Ph.D.? They call you a Nigger."

 
At 1/29/2006 05:41:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

To Anonymous @ 5:19

Here is what the "retarded" head of the Organization of the Islamic Conference said with regard to all this (sounds pretty fair to me)...

I read what you posted, and all I have to say is, "OMG!!" The only word that comes to mind is hyprocisy. Pot meet kettle.

One thing I want to ask you, though:
But as a white american, i can tell you what most of these white americans call Arabs, no matter how much you try to sell-out your culture: they call you a "sand nigger."

How do you know that most of these are white Americans? Do you have any fact to back that up? And can you give us some links on these blogs in which the words "sand nigger" have been used?

jonas

 
At 1/29/2006 06:03:00 PM, Blogger Crazy Girl said...

"Muslims: from what i have read of the muslims who 'don't care' about this issue is that they don't care precisely because they know so little about the religion they pay lip service to, case in point is "Yas or Jess"'s reply. So Yas or Jess, i guess Danes are not such cool people after all."

First of all I don't pay lip service to anyone ..And what makes you think I know nothing of my religion? Is it because I don't sit and repeat the quran word for word? And danes are still cool people in my opinion! Second of all just why should I care about this issue anyway..Muslims are killing one another...They can't even get along with one another and they are teaching each other to blow themselves up in the name of Islam and we should be worried about someone making a cartoon about the prophet.. I think you should take a look at the great prophet Mohammed and everything he's done.. I'm not even going to get started on that..How old was one of his wives's when he married her?

"But as a white american, i can tell you what most of these white americans call Arabs, no matter how much you try to sell-out your culture: they call you a "sand nigger."

I don't think I am selling out my culture for anything. I don't even think SM is either(he can speak for himself)_. There are things that are wrong with the way Arabs behave and the way the norm has become with them.. Secondly..I'm and American born and raised in Brooklyn and my mothers family is all American..So what the hell are you talking about selling out my culture.. Haven't been called a sand nigger yet...I only speak about what I know and see.. Egypt is very messed up.. I like Egypt but there are serious issues there..This is not about pleasing someone or selling out our culture..Its about having the freedom to say,act,feel and think the things we want to think. Which you cant in most Arab countries. People can call people what ever they want..Unless you know what someone is about I wouldn't go accusing them of being a sell out..

 
At 1/29/2006 06:03:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think the problems would be solved if Muslims just moved back to the countries from whence they came and started demanding the rights they want in foreign countries, in their own - I imagine the thought would be laughable.

Threatening those cartoonists with their lives is a criminal activity in itself, and those doing the threatening should be arrested and charged.

Some Muslims need to get thicker skins.

And Sandmonkey, I would never even think to call you a 'sand nigger,' ever, but you can call me what you want, I could care less - like water off a duck's back. I think you are right on the money, most of the time.

Joanne

 
At 1/29/2006 06:20:00 PM, Anonymous Jokerman said...

Anonymous Jordanian
You didnt say anything that made sense!!
Ofcourse its choice of people who follow hollow directives issued by clerics.
I am sorry but i dont really have that much admiration for Jordan for many reasons that i wont discuss now.
But to Boycott a whole country simply because of a newspaper whether or not they really did intend to insult is absolute rubbish & if the people chose it well they are ignorant but please do not mention solidarity in that region because its a myth.
Freedom of choice & people choice is really big words describing small deeds. first of all, the people who chose to boycott dont know what harm this can do if others followed suit & boycotted the arab world, your dear jordan would suffer alot with your economy not so solid i think the people should be careful at this day & age.
now regarding this nice jokes you said[: Books insulting Christianity?
Now this has to be from Hollywood.
Please name one Jokerman.
5% of Jordanians are Christians and Muslims embrace them as they embrace us. We together live in harmony and respect each other's beliefs.] you must take me for a fool, dont you? well regarding books take this one
- moqarant al adyan 2: Al massi7iyah by dr.ahmed shalaby
Books that insult & insinuate throughout its lines are alot, i can write you more names with writers ranging from Qaradawi, Mohamed el ghazali, Keshk, sha3rawi & many more. so dont give that its got to be hollywood crap, you are under the impression that im a complete foreigner who knows nothing & speaks without proof, sorry mate to break you heart, your statement reeks of prejudism hiding the truth that you know & you dare speak about fine lines.

 
At 1/29/2006 06:41:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Originally posted by Yasmina or Jess
I'm and American born and raised in Brooklyn and my mothers family is all American.

Oh, yeeaahhh,....you go girl! LMAO

Frankly, I don't think Anonymous@5:19 knows what he/she is talking about. I've been to lots of so-called "neocon" blogs and have never seen anyone call a Middle Easterner a "sand nigger." And if I ever see it, I'd rip them to shreds. Anonymous is a race baiter, from where I'm standing.


jonas

 
At 1/29/2006 06:47:00 PM, Blogger Jordan said...

"They also did not make fun of Hinduism but rather showed how most Americans actually have the idiotic brainpower of Homer Simpson"

Hmm...

- Flanders told Apo he is worshiping false g-ds

- Flanders compares Hindu G-ds to Hawkman

- Homer dresses up Gnuish, Elephant attacks Gnuish

- Apo recieved his degree from a snake

- Apo is a P.H.D. who works at the Quicky Mart

- Bart and Lisa make fun of Apo's mother's dot, ask if it changes color when she gets angry

- Hindu music is mocked

- Homer makes fun of Apo's Gnuish statue in Qweeky Mart

- Homer (and Apo) make fun of arranged marriages

- "We treat you like cattle" airlines


Nope, no mockery of Hinduism there!

Imagine what would happen if the Simpsons applied the same standards to Islam as it does to Hinduism. Do you think the Islamic world would take "72 virgin" jokes in good humour?

Face it, some religions have a healthy sense of humour and some well...

 
At 1/29/2006 06:49:00 PM, Blogger Twosret said...

So the Muslims practiced they right of freedom to object the incident.

I guess it is a free world for the Journalist but not a free world for the muslims.

Oh Well! the hypocrisy of democracy at it's best :)

I mean seriously screw the Danish Cows who cares!

 
At 1/29/2006 06:50:00 PM, Blogger Crazy Girl said...

Thats for sure Jonas...

anon @5:19 really doesn't get it..

 
At 1/29/2006 07:02:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

twosret,

1) Muslims have the right to boycott Denmark.

2)No one is saying they don't have that right.

However, people everywhere also have the right to criticize that boycott because, to borrow Sand Man's lexicon, "retarded." It makes Muslims look very insecure, it makes Islam look even worse. Punish an entire country for the action of one newspaper. That sure make these Muslims look very intelligent, no? What about the Muslims who workin Denmark? They'll get the shaft as well. Genius, I tell you.

The newspaper has the right to publish those cartoons, and Muslims everywhere have the right to boycott. No double standard there. How you can describe that as hypocrisy escapes me.

jonas

 
At 1/29/2006 07:03:00 PM, Anonymous Peter-Australia said...

So some Muslims believe they have to boycott Danish products or threaten to murder people to put their point across.

Have this lot not heard of letters to the Editor? Just put a send a complaint into the offending paper/magazine explaining why you feel offended and done. The Prophet's honour is defend and you have explained to people why these pictures are offensive.

P.S. Have pictures of the Prophet always been against Islamic law?

 
At 1/29/2006 07:15:00 PM, Blogger Ron Larson said...

Memo
To: The world's muslims
From: Ron
Date: 2006-Jan
Subject: Danish cartoons of prophet


Lighten up!! It is a friggen drawing. I'm glad to see that you have solved all of your other problems and can now focus all of your energy on what someone in a tiny country in northwest Europe drew on a piece of paper.

PS: In the words of William Shater... "Get a life".

 
At 1/29/2006 07:34:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree with the reader that wrote about how insulting it is to be called an infidel. Or how about "World of war'?or or.....

 
At 1/29/2006 07:42:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sphinx
The only cure for perceived insults is more free speech, not less. You do not have the right not to be offended. I know that sucks, but c’est la vie.

Adelstar
Respect is earned!!!!!!

The outrageous hypocrisy displayed by those implementing a boycott is simply amazing, especially in light of all of the things being done in the name of Islam around the globe. They protest some stupid cartoons that they think is hurting the name of Islam, but when you consider what kaffir’s like me see everyday done in the name of Islam perhaps you can understand why I am not particularly concerned that you were offended by some stupid cartoons. Take for an example the following deeds performed by Muslims in the name of Islam. I could find many more such stories as well.

Indonesian Jihad on 16-year-old girls who were beheaded just for being Christian.
http://egyptiansandmonkey.blogspot.com/2005/10/jihad-on-teenage-girls.html

Killing of a young Catholic man in Pakistan because he would not convert to Islam, covered up by media and ignored by government. Now the government won’t prosecute the alleged culprits because they are afraid of the Islamic fanatics outside the courtroom.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/001947.php

What about the Egyptian Copts, which SM has covered admirably?

I believe the offended Muslims are making a mountain out of a molehill. All of the ranting and raving is not going to stop things of this nature. If anything it will provoke more people to draw more outrageous and yes funny cartoons regarding Mohammad and Islam. Just imagine the things that the creative kaffirs could do to defame Islam, when viewing the following video of a creepy “Christian Preacher” who I actually think is a conman.
http://www.break.com/index/fartpreach4.html

If you think I'm being too harsh, I'm a Catholic and I am able to laugh at what some people do to defame Christ. The following video is an example. Just imagine the uproar if Mohammad were substituted for Christ. Remember to Christians, Jesus is not just a man but God and Mohammad was only a man. Even though I'm a Christian I do find the following video amusing. I'm not out clamoring for this guy to have his head lopped off, nor am I trying to protest the website hosting the video.
http://www.flurl.com/uploaded/Jesus_gets_owned_44439.html

 
At 1/29/2006 07:43:00 PM, Blogger Twosret said...

Jonas,

"1) Muslims have the right to boycott Denmark.
2)No one is saying they don't have that right"

So why are they called retarded when they do?

 
At 1/29/2006 08:09:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

twosret,

So why are they called retarded when they do?

I just told you: it makes Muslims look petty. It makes Muslims look very insecure, and it makes Islam look even worse. It reminds me of the incident with the ice cream cone. I just shake my head in amazement.

I can imagine this line of thought crossing people's minds:
"Hey, look, everybody! Allah and Mohammed need Muslims to defend them. That's weak."

Muslims who are citizens of Denmark will get hurt by this as well. Imagine if they get laid off because of this boycott. Did they deserved the lay off? What if you're a business owner in Saudi Arabia, and the boycott forbids you from purchasing Danish products. That will hurt your bottom line. Will you have to lay off your employees?

It's a domino effect; regional and perhaps worldwide economies may be affected. There are many equations to consider here. From where I'm standing, these Muslims only want to punish Denmark, without realizing what the consequences of their actions will be. That......is retarted, especially over some cartoon drawings.


jonas

 
At 1/29/2006 08:28:00 PM, Anonymous AhmedT said...

Programmer Craig,

1) What I meant by "wrong" in continuing the boycott is that since the people that started the boycott wanted an apology, and they got one, that whole thing should've just ended right there. What are they expecting ? Begging for forgiveness on public TV ?

2) You say that the cartoon which offended 1.5 billion people is "just a cartoon" yet at the end of your message you admit that it was disrespectful and in poor taste; so where exactly are we disagreeing on here?

3) I don't know where I said that "Freedom of speech COULDN'T be insulting" and how I contradicted myself! With all due respect, if you think that Freedom of speech has to, or should be insulting then you my friend are the one with a basic misunderstanding of what the word means. As someone put in his comment here (they are growing rapidly :-) ) some people use freedom of speech like 5 year olds.

4) Where in any thing I wrote did I "defend the people doing the threatening", and how could you possibly equate "attacking the cartoonists" and disagreeing with them to issuing death threats ?! I thought we're gonna have an intelligent debate until I read this point. I hope you misunderstood me, hence you commented this way.

5) When I said the majority of people, I meant Muslims; so I agree my sentence was poorly phrased, but nevertheless if the emotions of the majority of 1.5 billion people aren't important then maybe this should be the subject of another discussion.

6) Again, I don't understand how I'm contradicting myself, and I think its only fair if we expect from others to censor themselves when it comes to "disrespectful" and "poor taste" issues (these are you own word describing the cartoons, right ?) Choosing to be cognizant about and sensitive regarding other people's emotions is a choice that indicates maturity in one's behavior; we all do it everyday at work, school, supermarket, etc.. Stopping the "ugly" lady in the supermarket isle and telling her how "ugly" she is should not be considered freedom of speech (I hope you agree with me on this one :-) ) and society expects me and you to "censor" ourselves in that manner.

7) I agree that neither of us has more right than the other to call for respect of Islam or Christianity, so what's the point? You and I can demand; some will respect our wishes and more will not !

8) I won't comment on what Islam has to offer because I hope I illustrated my point about how I view freedom of speech in the above.

You seem to like my name so much, Programmer Craig ! :-D

In any case I've written more on my blog, you're more than welcome to comment there too as long as we agree to respect each other even if we disagree.

Cheers,
AT

 
At 1/29/2006 08:37:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

SM and Jess:thanks for not taking your religion or yourselves too seriously.No doubt your opinions and worldviews are not shared by too many Arabs/muslims,and I appreciate your objectivity and honesty.Am kind of surprised you don't get harrassed or threatened by more pious Muslims though,or maybe you do...
Since I am a White Christian American,I could not get away with bringing up certain facts about Mohammed (do I have to say "PBUH"?),like his marriage to Aisha when she was but a child,or the alleged fact that one of his many wives (12?) was Jewish.

As for the stupid cartoons,I wonder if the guys who drew them knew it was forbidden to make an image of you-know-who? I had no clue about this,though I still think they had a right to do it.Maybe they should apologize for inadvertently being insensitive to Muslims,just to prevent any further action against them. Peace...Dan

 
At 1/29/2006 08:57:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

So, basically we're suppose to show muslims the respect that they won't show others.

 
At 1/29/2006 09:01:00 PM, Blogger Crazy Girl said...

Why should they apologize? Are the Muslims that are killing each other sorry? Did anyone I mean any one that was responsible for 9/11 say sorry or show remorse? Most Arabs are self righteous and they have no respect for any other religion and they curse any Jew for no reason at all.. But they never say sorry for it..

Someone drew a stupid ass cartoon.. A flippin cartoon and they did the worse thing ever? Is it really a disgrace to Islam? We Muslims are so perfect and we never do anything to disrespect god or the prophet that we have the right to pick on someone who drew a cartoon? Like Anon 8:37pm said..How many people actually knew that drawing a picture of the prophet would be so wrong...

If I'm not mistaken during Ramadan on TV in Egypt isn't there a clay animated show telling the stories of the prophets? So why doesn't someone just say hey next time don't draw it make out of clay and we wont mess with you? Why didn't they just write about it.. Calling for a boycott is the dumbest thing ever..They are punishing people that didn't have anything to do with it. Now where in Islam does it say its ok to punish people that didn't do it? Anyone care to say? If it was so damn bad..Don't freakin buy or read the paper again..So much for peaceful solutions.

 
At 1/29/2006 09:05:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gee, and I thought it was the religion of peace.

 
At 1/30/2006 12:04:00 AM, Blogger GC said...

Sandmonkey,

A very well articulated post. I've been furious at the stupid boycott attempts and amazed how many governments are jumping on the bandwagon of boycott and protests. People in our region (the Arab world) want the whole world to work by their standards when so many people in our countries say the most offensive things about others. Just last week, our neighbourhood Imam equated jews and christians to cows and pigs! Should the Danish people boycott Egyptian products and ask for an apology from the Egyptian government because of that?

 
At 1/30/2006 12:15:00 AM, Blogger programmer craig said...

AT, here is what you said on your own blog:

"Freedom of Speech is NOT equal to Freedom to Insult ! Some people just can't get that."

That claim speaks for itself. You want speech restricted, which is not free speech at all.

That said, I'll try to address some of the other issues you bring up in your comment here.

"2) You say that the cartoon which offended 1.5 billion people is "just a cartoon" yet at the end of your message you admit that it was disrespectful and in poor taste; so where exactly are we disagreeing on here?"

You think cartoons cannot be disrespectful and in poor taste? There's a black comic who gets published every week in major US papers who routinely makes fun of white people, which I find to be racist, disrespectful, and in poor taste. It's still "just a cartoon" - no matter how offensive it is.

"3) I don't know where I said that "Freedom of speech COULDN'T be insulting" and how I contradicted myself!"

I quoted your post from your own blog, right at the top of this comment. Seems to me the contradiction is obvious? What am I missing?

"With all due respect, if you think that Freedom of speech has to, or should be insulting then you my friend are the one with a basic misunderstanding of what the word means."

Is "freedom" really such a difficult concept?

"As someone put in his comment here (they are growing rapidly :-) ) some people use freedom of speech like 5 year olds."

So? If you try to restrict their speech, it's not free speech, anymore!! Right?

"4) Where in any thing I wrote did I "defend the people doing the threatening", and how could you possibly equate "attacking the cartoonists" and disagreeing with them to issuing death threats ?!"

You support the same cause that the people making death threats do. You make the same arguments they do. You seek a different outcome, but you fight the same fight. By doing that, you support their cause, even if it's indirectly.

The people making death threats are doing something illegal. The people drawing cartoons of the Prophet, are not. It's the same old thing, Mohamed. Moslems keep saying they aren't responsible for what extremists do (which I agree with) but when you support the positions of an extremist (while opposing his methods) you are fanning the flames. You should be denouncing those guys, but as far as I can tell, you aren't.

I don't mean that as a personal attack. It's just an observation.

"I thought we're gonna have an intelligent debate until I read this point. I hope you misunderstood me, hence you commented this way."

I hope I misunderstand your position too! I really do. Because Islam has got some serious problems - a lack of understanding about what OTHER PEOPLE'S RIGHTS ARE is probably the biggest. 80% of the world's population doesn't even know what Sharia is, Ahmed - moslems need to stop trying to aplly it to infidels. We're infidels. You know?

Isn't that in the Koran? Islamic law is not to be applied to non-moslems? I'm almost positive I've seen that quoted.

"7) I agree that neither of us has more right than the other to call for respect of Islam or Christianity, so what's the point? You and I can demand; some will respect our wishes and more will not !"

So, what are we arguing about here?

"8) I won't comment on what Islam has to offer because I hope I illustrated my point about how I view freedom of speech in the above."

You seem to feel that speech should be restricted, which is the exact opposite of free speech.

"You seem to like my name so much, Programmer Craig ! :-D"

It's my habit to use somebodies name a lot in blog comments. I don't mean anything by it :)

 
At 1/30/2006 12:34:00 AM, Blogger programmer craig said...

Hmmm... I just posted a long comment to Ahmed but it dooesn't seem to have shown up! I'll have to try and re-create it tomorrow if it's still gone, I guess.

Just saw a "breaking news" ticker that says Fatah gunemn have seized the EU office in Gaza, in protest over these cartoons... just what Palestinians need right now! Mayb e the story won't pan out, or will end up being unrelated...

 
At 1/30/2006 01:09:00 AM, Blogger Liza said...

An excellent post, Sandmonkey.

I find it difficult to respect Islamic sensibilities with regard to this issue, given that so many Arab countries seem to have turned anti-Semitic portrayals in the media into a national pastime. The Arabic press is full of political cartoons playing up the classic Jewish stereotypes, blood libel, etc., and government-sanctioned television is no better, with programs often depicting Jews in a very poor light. Why is this acceptable?

And please don't try to cloak this virulent form of anti-Semitism under the guise of being anti-Israel. Not all Jews are Israeli, and most Jews around the world have no connection to the place, indeed, most have never even visited. It's anti-Semitism, vicious stereotyping, and no different from what the Islamic world is complaining about with regard to the Danish cartoons.

 
At 1/30/2006 03:57:00 AM, Anonymous davan said...

Yasmina, sand monkey and a few others,

i bet u guys don't know what you
talking about. the Danish cartoonist shit shows prophet mohammed as a terrorist. what t-shirts what historic islamic illustrations what crap you guys talking about? the cartoons were published in the eid day!!! and yeah whay do Westerners always do such thing to islam only ot of all world religions?

believe me those danish champions
of freedom of speech can not say even one insluting word or even
criticize any member of the Israeli gov.

 
At 1/30/2006 04:47:00 AM, Blogger Crazy Girl said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 1/30/2006 04:49:00 AM, Blogger Crazy Girl said...

oh so they only have freedom of speech when it comes to Muslims..Right..

I could care less if they showed the phophet smoking weed..People have a right to do what they want..You don't like you don't buy..And you don't punish a whole damn country..

 
At 1/30/2006 05:39:00 AM, Blogger The Sandmonkey said...

davan,

I saw the cartoons. Only 2 of the 12 were "offesnive", the one pcituring the prophet holding a dagger and has 2 women behind him and the one where they are depicting his turban as a bomb. The other 10 were not even close to those 2, and in reality , only the one with the turban bomb could be deemed as the prophet = terrorist cartoon. So yes, I do know what I am talking about, thank you very much.

As far as I know, the secular western world's newspapers hold all religions as fair game. Islam is not trageted in any special way, more then, say christianity or judiaism. the thing with Islam, the reason why they ran those cartoons, is because its followers tend to have extreemly violent reactions towards anything they deem offensive. the salman rushdie death fatwa, or the theo van gogh murder to cite 2 examples. The idea was to examine whether or not the european countries exercise self-censorship when it comes to muslims because, well, we apparently can't handle open redicule without at least threatening to kill someone. And they were right, as evident with the death threats those cartoonists recieved and the bomb threats made against the newspaper, let alone the bombs in Iraq yesterday.

Now, you mentioned the israelis, and that's good because I wanted to make a point on that. the israelis, or the zionists, have managed to quell critcisms against them by using an effective method: suing the living shit out of everyone who talks shit about them. It's smart, it's nonviolent and it hits where it hurts. This is the course of action I support: sue the newspaper everywhere. Make it go bankrupt, so that next time people will think twice about the legal ramification of making fun of muslims. But don;t threaten to kill them or actually go and do it. Because, in that sense, you are proving their point for them: that muslims are barbaric, uncivilized and bloodthursty people.

So next time, sue them. Sue them all you want. Just don;t threaten to kill them or try to punish a whole country because of what a newspaper published. That's just ..what's the word again?... ohh yeah, RETARDED!

 
At 1/30/2006 06:46:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Davan, as a matter of fact there has been lots and lots of criticism of Israel and Israeli policies in the danish press over many years.

Kjartan

 
At 1/30/2006 08:20:00 AM, Blogger Egypeter said...

I want one answer from those that think Muslim countries are justified in this boycott. Just one.

Just like Global Cairene said:

"Just last week, our neighbourhood Imam equated jews and christians to cows and pigs!"

How about that one, huh? Where is the Christian and Jewish world's outrage. Maybe we should rally and smite at the necks of all Muslims for that comment. Why not? It seems to be the popular thing to do in the Muslim world.

This type of venom spews from mosques ALL over Egypt ALL of the time. Can anyone deny that these calls for intolerance do not happen in Egypt...doubt it. Is this not MORE "offensive" to Jews and Christians than a stupid cartoon depicting Mohamed to Muslims? Should Christians and Jews boycott Egypt?

Now, which of the two acts is more hateful?

Which is more harmful?

Which one serves to cause more division? Do Muslims in Denmark now have a hard time with their neighboors because of the cartoons...hardly!

Or do Christians and Jews have a harder time in Muslim countires because of what comes from the mouths of fanatical imamas and loudspeakers?

Some individuals and groups in this world are hyper-sensitive and it's really ridiculous.

People should worry about the speck in their OWN eye before they point out the one in their neighboors.

This boycott is a joke and people need to grow the hell up.

Peace in the middle east.

 
At 1/30/2006 09:56:00 AM, Anonymous frenchfregoli said...

To all so easily offended folks:

Maybe the OIC head of countries should organize a big gathering of the biggest islamic scholars and publish a list of "do's" and "do not" for the rest of the planet,and of courese exempting the muslims from any sort of restraint, so we will know how to behave.

 
At 1/30/2006 10:35:00 AM, Blogger P-BS-Watcher said...

Thanks for posting on this topic. The Danish newspaper which published the original cartoons has been forced to apologize. The Brussels Journal blog which has led the reporting of this attack on free speech is now receiving threats. Given the state of free speech in Europe as evidenced by the Italian "prove Christ existed" case, I expect Brussels Journal to be forced to remove the cartoons and their reporting. To guard against that possibility, I have reposted the cartoons and the Brussels Journal reporting thread on my blog. I urge all bloggers who care about free speech to do the same. See Farenheit 451 Alert

 
At 1/30/2006 12:36:00 PM, Blogger stackdogg said...

This is way off topic, but you gave praise to American christian groups for being able to respect free speech (in ref. to Knaye West a Jesus on the cover of Rolling Stone)Christian groups in America are the biggest threats to free speech. They ritually dismantle any form of art or public discourse that is even remotely controversial. Christians have America by the nuts, so to speak, and I feel this is just as harmful as the situation that you describe. Stations that ran the recently cancelled TV show "Book of Daniel" received death threats, Christians have boycotted car manufactures for running ads in gay magazines, it is utterly ludicrous. I respect the point that you are making, but please be careful who you praise.

 
At 1/30/2006 01:27:00 PM, Blogger programmer craig said...

I think the New York Times should re-print these cartoons immediately. In fact, I call upon them to do so.

 
At 1/30/2006 01:41:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello Sandmonkey, thanks for an interesting blog. Could you please explain why you consider the drawing with 2the prophet holding a dagger and has 2 women behind" to be insulting?

 
At 1/30/2006 03:28:00 PM, Blogger Richard Landes said...

your point no. 3 is well taken. the insecurity implicit in forcing people to show respect. and the closer to the truth the cartoons get, the more objectionable they feel.

r

 
At 1/30/2006 10:15:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Has anyone seen this story in the major Western media? I cannot find any mention of it in USA Today or my local newspaper.I wish they would cover it on page one for all to see how utterly ridiculous the muslim response has been.I saw the cartoons but did not quite understand the one of Mohammad and the two young women.Maybe they were supossed to be two of his wives,but what's wrong with that? I have to admit the one with a bomb in his turban was probably a bit too much,but unfortunately some people equate Islam with terrorism.Gee,I wonder why? JD

 
At 1/31/2006 06:20:00 AM, Anonymous Blower said...

I think this blog and its operator represent how freedom of expression can be ugly!
I like what Ahmed said that “freedom of speech can be insulting but does it have to be if the goal is to be constructive”. True, I think the reasoning of this right under any legal system, including the U.S, is the development and the welfare of the country, but unfortunately, a lousy organisation like KKK is just another ugly example of this great right. Monkey, if someone said in your face that your father is retarded? I guess that you would be fine with this! Em…

I don’t want to argue whether the boycott is right or wrong now, but I am glad to see that some still have some dignity! And let’s put it that simply: We don’t want anybody to mock our prophet (this is our own choice), we feel bad when somebody does (this is our own feeling), and we will use boycott or other peaceful acts against it/him/here (and this is our freedom).

 
At 1/31/2006 10:30:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Blower, muslims don't use only "peaceful" ways to protest. The newspaper received a bomb threat and there's been a call to kill the cartoonists. I think that's hardly peaceful. Christianity did that in the Middle Ages

 
At 1/31/2006 10:32:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

All this just leaves a very bad impression about Islam (supposed to be so tolerant) and its followers. If it's meant for a good cause, i think it does exactly the opposite

 
At 1/31/2006 12:29:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

With all respect, pls allow me to totally disagree with your opinions written here ..

I like to think of myself as a secular person too. I am an AUCian who has been living abroad, in Europe for some time, including 9 months in Denmark.

There is something called mutual respect for others' beliefs in scandinavia. Freedom of expression has to stop to a point when you are insulting to others.

The Moslem world is not retarded by asking governments to stop newspapers from encouraging hatred. Anti semetic behaviour lead to the discrimination against Jews earlier and right now there is a similar trend in Europe and the US against Moslems. Something needs to be done to stop that wave. It is not by violence as is done sometimes by extremists, but through the expression of the nations that this is just not acceptable anymore.

You think boycotting products means nothing. I disagree. It was boycotting business in South Africa that lead finally to the transformation and abolition of Apartheid. It was the peaceful resistance movement in India that lead to the final end of occupation.

WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING !

Do you know that in a poll 79 % of Danes (your cool Danes) were in support of the newspaper campaign ? Why ? Do you know that the current government in denmark is the only right wing government in Europe at the moment ? Do you know what extreme right wing means ?

I have watched ridiculous TV programs there inciting against Moslems and asking to throw them out because they are scared their numbers are increasing and soon they might represent a majority. How democratic is that ? Being discriminated against based on your religion is not fun or a joke. Many moslems in europe now are scared for their lives. In Australia they attacked Lebanese people only based on their ethnic origin. In the US they mistook an Indian wearing a turban for a Moslem and attacked him. How cool is that ?

I think you need to see things a bit from a different angle. Try to live the lives of Moslem people in Europe.. try to see the effect of this blasphemy on creating a general public opinion anti-Arab and anti-Muslim. We are not those veiled carrying a gun .. we are simple people being some what discriminated against based on our origin ...

 
At 1/31/2006 03:00:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

12:29 Ano
Wrote:
Do you know that in a poll 79 % of Danes (your cool Danes) were in support of the newspaper campaign ? Why ? Do you know that the current government in denmark is the only right wing government in Europe at the moment ? Do you know what extreme right wing means ?


Well i dont know where you come from but Denmark having a Specific country to the south knows what extreme right wing is, and i dont get your point about our goverment being right wing. But i do get your point about the poll listing 79% being in favor of that the goverment should NOT excuise (not in faver of the newspaper campaing). I my self have the same meaning why should the goverment excuise, that is not the way it works in our country and who are you to be policeman of Denmark?

And are the muslims better?
Well after wachting the news sunday evening where I could see muslims burning the danish flag i got offended well actually i got MAD. But ok then i realiced that my anger wasnt different from yours so i say we call it even.

/Kasper (Copenhagen)

 
At 1/31/2006 04:38:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The thing that really gets me is that people in muslim countries can burn american and israeli flags, equate the star of David to a swastika(jewish holy symbol), call non-muslims infidels, describe jews as monkeys and pigs, deny that the holocaust ever existed, burn down churches and other religious sites, kill people for converted from Islam, rape and kill christian minorities, say that jews drink the blood of christian children, threaten to wipe out jews, etc., etc.,

with the response being no threats of boycotts from us infidels, no threats of violence, no demands of apologies....no response in fact. It's somehow okay for muslims to do these things.

But make a few cartoons and the muslim world goes mad!

I just don't understand. It's like muslims think they can treat others anyway they want, and in return we all must show them respect!

 
At 1/31/2006 04:43:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Egypeter:

This type of venom spews from mosques ALL over Egypt ALL of the time. Can anyone deny that these calls for intolerance do not happen in Egypt...doubt it. Is this not MORE "offensive" to Jews and Christians than a stupid cartoon depicting Mohamed to Muslims? Should Christians and Jews boycott Egypt?

Now, which of the two acts is more hateful?

Which is more harmful?

Which one serves to cause more division? Do Muslims in Denmark now have a hard time with their neighboors because of the cartoons...hardly

Peter, you hit the bulls-eye with that one.

 
At 1/31/2006 11:51:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think the Danes should've done a bit of research about the Muslim culture before publishing the cartoons . Arabic mentality is not the same as the European one , end of story .

Arab world in general never heard about the freedom of speech and never practiced it , so they can never understand it .

Boycotting the Danish good is just to send a message to the outer world that they should respect our believes and religon . All we asked for was a lousy appology that the newspaper refused to do in the begining and then did , when it was too late .

 
At 2/01/2006 08:04:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It seems to me like a major problem with many people who have raised objection to the cartoons (both on this blog and elsewhere) fail to understand is the word free (and it's derivatives).

Free: "able to act at will; not hampered; not under compulsion or restrain"

Saying that we must be tolerant or nice or compassionate or any of these things represents a restraint on my freedom.

So when AT says "With all due respect, if you think that Freedom of speech has to, or should be insulting then you my friend are the one with a basic misunderstanding of what the word means." He is clearly the one who deosn't understand the word. No freedom of speech doesn't HAVE to be insulting...but if we don't have the option of insulting people, then how is it free speech?

But wait there is GOOD NEWS for anyone, Muslim or otherwise, who is offended by cartoons, books, sermons or anything else they don't like. You have lots of FREEDOMS too! You are free to ignore, not support, not buy the offensive stuff and best of all draw YOUR own cartoons, write YOUR own books, preach YOUR own sermons etc. contradicting/mocking/criticizing or whatever else you feel the need to do to the people who offended you.

Surpressing speech that offends people is not the solution. If you want a tangible example of this do some reasearch on how the KKK was defeated in America. (Here's a hint: Read Steven Leavitt's Freakonomics)

Nothing gives me greater pleasure in this world than listening to people say or write things that offend me (which is tough to do, cause very little offends me) or that I think is stupid. Because it means I live in a free society.

A parting thought:
"Hateful, blasphemous, prejudiced, vulgar, rude, or ignorant remarks are the music of a free society, and the relentless patter of idiots is how we know we're in one" - Daniel Gilbert, Harvard psychologist

 
At 2/01/2006 11:19:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If the cartoons were hateful and offensive, why not boycott the realities that led to the cartoons?
Was it the Danes' perversity or the "perversion" of Islam that led to the linking of the prophet of Islam with a bomb? Can anyone here understand why someone might link the prophet of Islam with a bomb? Not that the prophet necessarily did, but can anyone see why someone might associate the two together? Anyone? Sandmonkey? This was the only one that was truly offensive? Then join the counterinsurgency or just the counterradical intelligentsia.

Religions have been used to terrorize populations in the past. They are currently doing so. But the past should be no excuse for the present. It is a young child who uses the defense of, "But he did it first!" And since they are associated with past actions, calling them retarded is fairly accurate.

However, the boycott did less to offend me than the more radical calls against the cartoonists and the newspapers. And it is beyond offensive at this time -- it is expected behavior. And that is sad.

Currently, Islam is the religion most closely associated with terrorism. The debate should not be framed around yelling louder than your opposition, but in correcting your own extremists. Where are the Saudi imams who are preaching tolerance? Where are the Islamic scholars debunking killing young girls who stray from the path of righteousness. Where are the boycotts of states that promote terrorism? How are those 1.5 billion Muslims building a better world that is safer for them and others (like me)? Is it because Muslims do not really think it terrorism? It is all tied to defeat of the great Satan, America, and the Zionist enemy, Israel? I hope that Islam will be able to overcome its hobbling heresies. I hope that the caliphate never emerges in a form it has in the past or in a form for which radicals pray. There are many Muslims who are fighting on the "right" side of the GWOT. But never forget that most of those fighting on the "wrong" side are Muslim. I hope that the radicalized elements can be eliminated or moderated. I think that would be best coming from within Islam. Absent that, it is coming from a world that is weary of conflict, moderated within by its own diversity and ideals, but a giant lion when necessary.

Don't think I am trying to Islam down -- think of it as encouragement to go beyond and confront an evil far greater than a heretical depiction of the prophet of Islam. Do this by understanding that the link between Islam and a bomb-turbanned prohpet is there and confronting the link, not the people and institutions who recognized and depicted the link. Work to make the link untrue.

-Kyle

 
At 2/01/2006 04:56:00 PM, Anonymous hisham said...

to those who humiliated our profit mohamed god preys on him we will come to you at your countries smashing your skulls by our shoes and we will take revenge by our hands and teeth and i sware with god we will ,very very soon

 
At 2/01/2006 06:14:00 PM, Blogger Assistant Village Idiot said...

thanks, hisham, you make your enemies' point very well. Maybe you're a sock puppet, so I'll cut you some slack.

There is a repeated theme in the comments critical of the OP. Muslims are insulted. Good people do not insult Muslims. Therefore Muslim anger is not merely allowed, but correct. I challenge this root and branch.

If Muslims wish to act collectively, as in a boycott or political pressure, then they must accept that the actions from extremists are their actions as well. Unless, of course, they take excessive care to disassociate themsleves from others' actions. You can have it one way or the other, but not both ways at once.

You can say, "you criticise, I criticise, all is even." But it is not a logical extension to say "You criticise violence, my group threatens you, I defend their right to speak, all is even."

 
At 2/02/2006 06:00:00 AM, Anonymous FreeSpeach said...

The case with the drawings has realy been an eyeopener for me. I have come to realize the profound differences between Denmark/ Europe and the islamic/ arab world.
Can Islam be part of the modern world ? I think not.
In Denmark the freedom of speach is essential. If anyone in Denmark should appologize for the drawings in a newspaper (whether they like them or not)they would disrespect the long political battle over the last centuries in this part of the world for a free democratic society. In the meantime people got killed to critizice kings, tyrans and selfelected religious clowns who believed they spoke for the only good. One of our heroes (Voltaire) ? living in the 17. century said: "I profoundly disagree with you, but I would die for your right to express your oppinion". Now in Denmark everyone has this right. That also includes kommunists, nazis and islamists and other totalitarian ideologies, who would not give this right to others.
And now I am told to apology. I will only apology for my spelling.
I can assure you that in Denmark this case is at the same level as 9/11 and maybe even bigger. If this is the clash of civilizations count me in. I go all the way. An ironwall has devided Denmark/Europe and the muslim/ arab countries.
ps: @palestinians: no more political and economic support from this humble person.

And may your god be with you (the almighty, donald duck, the one and only, allah, tarzan, money. They come in all shapes and formes)

 
At 2/02/2006 06:20:00 AM, Anonymous advocate said...

I think some people just can't understand that some rights (including freedom of experssion) can be abused, and abusers should be responsible... this is a legal theory in the law that MacDonald’s lovers does not like it when it can be applied to Muslims.

Sandmonkey, I think what you practice here is not an objective criticism...but a criticism for the sake of the criticism which seems subjective to me!!!

 
At 2/02/2006 10:42:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Freedom of expression can be abused. It is not an absolute right with no restrictions. But we must be very careful when restricting it.

I would argue that the freedom to express a perception of radical Islamists ties to terrorism in the current modern world is accurate and just. But not all of Islam is indicted. And it should be the desire of other Muslims to distance themselves from that link. Harsh reactions to the cartoons merely confirm the cartoonist's claims. Reactions which argue for the separation between Islam and violence would be beneficial. But that argument should be between Muslims first. Freedom to offer a counter understanding is also necessary and will advance the world's understanding of Islam.

People in my part of the world tend to separate out mainstream and extremist views. And I can clearly see the separation in previous posts. And I would further suggest that Islamic self criticism is in order.

I think the prophet would be horrified at the acts committed in his name. But perhaps I am focused more on his positive teachings than the historical realities of military jihad and the human desire for domination. Perhaps he would embrace the terror. But I doubt it.

The purported reason for the publishing of the cartoons was a commentary on the efforts of the writer of a children's book on Mohommed's life to find an illustrator. The chilling effect of the knee-jerk reactions evinced by Muslims world-wide meant that the author could not find an illustrator who would actually sign their name to the pictures. There have been efforts to remove a depiction of Mohommed in a facade of the US Supreme Court building -- he was placed amongst a distinguished group of people who have impacted human history for his importance in advancing the rule of law. There have been calls for its removal.

The whole thing seems silly and misguided, but it is deadly serious. Lives are lost, futures ruined, misery advanced.

What is the Islamic teaching most at issue here? Representations of the prophet of Islam promoting idolatry? Or something else? Are there any other more important Islam principles which would mitigate the harsh reactions.

-Kyle

 
At 2/02/2006 03:13:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Apologists and orientalists have not changed much in centuries. Hiding behind free speech is an overabused strategy because it is easy in its laziness and lack of accountability, just like declaring war on an abstract noun. Yasmina, or Jess, or whatever that person is, speaks with the bias of someone who is openly irreverent towards religion itself.

That said, even such a base attitude does not preclude respect for other fellow humans who may actually believe in something, be they a quarter of the world or a millionth. All else aside (and there's plenty), the cartoon was an outrageously racial statement implying religious and terrorism generalizations that deserved without second thought, universal condemnation. Why are the brown peoples of the world, the "mud faces," barred from the protection of hateful speech? The refusal to recognize the torrent of like antiMuslim publications from Europe as hate speech in the way haulocaust denial is hate speech, is a societal/governemtal decision. The only way to hit callous and prejudiced people is where it hits most: in the pocketbook.

 
At 2/02/2006 03:35:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This blog is posted in the spirit of humour. Do not bomb or boycot me.

If 'they' made anything id boycott it. The sooner we use up all their oil and sod them off the better for us all. They can go back to eating rats and camels in the desert and play their games with each other without bothering us!

Technology will soon make 'them' and their 'sacred religion' redundant to the rest of the sane world.
Can’t wait for that day then we can stop pandering to their whinges and whims.

 
At 2/03/2006 07:02:00 AM, Anonymous Adrian from Denmark said...

Fantastic blog

I just laughed my ass off when I read it.

Well, first of all I wanna say thanks for supporting us in Denmark and next thing I wanna say is that no way in hell we should appologize for a cartoon.

However, I do feel sorry for all that have been hurted when they insist to see the things they didn't liked, and when they insist to read the things they dont wanna hear.

Surprise...
I have pornographic material in my deskdrawer. Please do not insist to see this too, if it will offend you.

A good thing is that all this fuzz helped spreading democracy in the mid-east.
Just look at Yemen...a small country where 100 tanks would roll into the city of sanaa if just 10 people would just whisper into eachothers ears about a demonstration. That was of course before we danes spread democracy there.
Now it's different, and 100.000 women are marching through Sanaa shouting about blasphemy, while they pad themselves on their heads to show how much they suffer.
Now that is democracy.
The best is perhaps that they really show dignaty in such situations.

As sandmonkey says : STOP BEING RETARDED!

 
At 2/03/2006 07:16:00 AM, Anonymous Adrian from Denmark said...

This is perhaps irrelevant, but I'm gonna write it anyway.

I've often critisized Israel for not trying to talk sense to the palestinians, becasue I believed that some kind of peace could be achieved with some rational argumentation.
These days it have been really clear to me, that there is not 2 cogerrent thoughts in those peoples minds, and they are not able to think just 1 month ahead from now on.

I'm fully confident that the aid money with feed them with is boycotted too from their side, but if they stop they boycot I'm quite frankly in favor for stopping any further help to them.

I somehow feel sorry for the people that will suffer, but if they really insist to disgrace themselvs so consistently as they do, who am I to stop them from doing that?

 
At 2/03/2006 10:13:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Salamu Alikom " for Muslims "/ Dear "non Muslims",

Let me say something here about Muhammed the man , so that we can think of him not only as a great historical & religious figure but also as a person who , in his daily life ,set a standard for complete picture of this remarkable man.
It's forbidden in Islam to try to make a drawing or painting of the prophet from the descriptions we have been given of him by some of those who met him, it's also forbidden for an actor 2 pretend to portray him in a play or movie. But there is no harm in relating some of the things that are known about him so that we can build an image of him in our minds.
The description of the prophet tell us that he was of medium height ,with slim body and broad shoulders, with broad & intelligent forehead. both his hair n beard were black, thick & slightly curly. he had large eyes ,with long lashes & thick, curved eyebrows.
His complexion was fair, though his skin was darkened by the strong sun of Arabia.
his expression was usually thoughtful,& his glance was that of someone whom people obeyed instinctively. His feet and hands were strong and broad, and he had the habit of walking quickly and with a firm tread.
He was a person who often smiled & always greeted ppl with a cheerful face .
Of course ,sometimes he would be sad or angry but even then he always remained in control of himself and never acted rashly or in the heat of anger.
In his everyday life he lived and dressed like the simplest of his fellow Muslims.
it's recorded that sometimes he would wash and even patch his own clothes and mend his shoes .
he gave no importance to material possessions.
Often, when given a present, he would immediately give it away 2 someone whose need he felt was greater than his own.
when given food he would always share it with those who were with him or with his neighbors. But only too often his food consisted of not more than coarse bread or dried dates, sometimes he & his family would go hungry because they did not have anything to eat and he was too proud to ask for food from others .
Yet like all of us, he had his favorite foods, among them the shoulder part of lamb or mutton, also sweet things like honey.
Muhammed paid no attention to outward show and didn’t like ppl who were arrogant in their dress or behavior and tried to show themselves as superior to others.
One of the teachings of Islam is that Muslims should treat each other as brothers and sisters.
Muhammed himself ,despite his very special position among his followers, treated everyone ,rich n poor, young and old ,strong and weak, like brother.
He had no false pride and was happy to sit down and share his meal with his servant.
he was always the first to call out a greeting and always the first to stretch out his hand to a man, however lowly he might be.
Muhammed was a man who practiced what he preached and hated hypocrisy.
Just as he himself was generous , he taught that we should all be as generous as we can.in one of his sayings he points out that even a poor person can be generous by giving away a little piece of date ,and if he doesn't even have that he can at least always make someone the gift of a kind word.
He loved children , his own and other ppl's , and would pick up all younger ones in his arms and join in games of the older ones.
His love for children is shown in the story of how he used to allow one of his little granddaughters, to ride on his shoulders as he preformed his prayers.
When he came to the time to prostrate himself, he would put her on the ground, and then pick her up when he rose from his prostration.
in such ways he showed that his religion and his prayers were a part of his everyday life.
All God's creatures were important to him, not only his fellow human beings. Thus animals he showed great gentleness and understanding .
Islam teaches that man has been given power over animals by God and we are therefore responsible for them, for there is no power that does not bring with it responsibilities.
Though animals are there for our use , we must treat them kindly and reasonably. Certain animals have been given to us for food, but he taught that even when we have to kill them so as to cook and eat them , we must cause them the least suffering possible.
We all give names to animals we are fond of, and the prophet was no diff. in this.the camel he rode was called " Qaswa'" , and history books tell us that his horse was called Sakb and he had a white mule to which he had given the name of Duldul.
The prophet had a particular liking for cats and would get up from where he was sitting and would open the door to a cat that wanted to come in.
He taught that we should not cause harm to animals and should do everything possible to help them in their lives, in particular , we should give them food when they are hungry .he once said of a man that would go to Paradise because he had given water to a thirsty dog.
Muhammed taught that we should always tell the truth, be honest, just and merciful in our dealings with other ppl, and always try to keep our word when we have promised something.
we should also try to rely upon ourselves & bear with the patience the misfortunes that may happen to us.
When talking about the future we should always say " if God wills'" (in sha' Allah')as the Qur'an teaches , for God alone has knowledge of future .
The profit in his daily life was the perfect model for what he taught, and his daily life was the perfect model what he taught in “sunna” or way of life , has become the ideal towards which every Muslim strives .
In our own lives we should do everything possible to follow what the Qur’an teaches us and what is contained in the prophet’s sayings. if we are ever In doubt about how we should act there is no better question we can ask ourselves than : What would the Messenger of God have done ?
Now why should some ppl make fun of such a great person ever !!??? I wonder why..???

 
At 2/03/2006 11:23:00 PM, Blogger SoldierOfAllah said...

Salam all,

Am really confused of how some people think, if somebody drew a picture of your mother, wife or even of prophet jesus! in an insaulting way what would your reaction be? alot of NORMAL people would get pissed off naturally..trust me when I say that prophet mohammad to me is more important than my family even my life so imagine how i feel when he's being insaulted! I dont think that freedom of speech should inculde hurting people's feelings, the problem these days that people dont have values or morals any more, as for the boycott let me tell you something I agree that the newspaper was the one who made the mistake the only reason that muslims are angry from Denmark as a whole is the attitude of the Danish goverment and people, at least if the people in Denmark can't change what the newspaper published let them disagree with it! but Unfortunately they all supported the newspaper as a result the muslims reacted as a whole to the Danish community and declaired boycott, I dont think boycott is the solutions for what is islam facing these days but its sure a temporary reply for what is beging said and done to muslims, the solution is that all muslims wake up and start applying the rules of islam so we can become a strong nation as we once were before we left islam rules and became insulted by any one who likes to do so, muslems are being called terrorists and retarded why is that! are we being called terrorists because we fight back and defend our selves from the attacks we are being facing from Israel and America? how come we are terrorist if we kill some Americans or Israelies and every day they are killing our civilians (which of course you dont know about because your media is showing you what they only want you to see), you know why people are bombing themselves? because this is the most effective way they can reply since they dont have any advanced weapons like Israel or US do so why killing people with guns and tanks is not terrorism and killing them with bombs is! I dont know if people know this but all the Israely people even women are part of the Israely army and when a war starts all of Israel country becomes an army soo practically there are no civilians in Israel except for children and the elders, any way this far way from the Danish subject but I just got drivin away a bit :)
thanks all and I hope to reach for an understanding

Salam

 
At 2/04/2006 05:31:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

assalamu alikum to all

okay guys imagine...a publisher from denmark goes to USA to white house he take photo of gaurge w bush as nude without his knowlage and come back to denmark and issue articale with that photo on the front page of the newspaper saying this freedom and this press

do you think will the american people will take it easily,lightly or
they will let go of it? may be not

imagine american people protas and the publisher say sorry i did a wrong thing i shouldnt have done that

in the otherside america say to the denmark PM you must put the publisher in jail the PM say no i cant they have the freedom to do that

in this point the americans are very angry even on the denmark PM and they cant kill the publisher cant boycott the newspaper because its not in their country so what they can do ya they can boycott the whole country to panish whole country not for panishing the publishers
americans are very smart

from
al5sul

 
At 2/04/2006 05:37:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

i say their very smart
but some people say they are retard

from
al5sul

 
At 2/04/2006 08:59:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Freedom of expression?

What hypocricy. A German newspaper printed the cartoons "in solidarity" with the original offender to demonstrate its right to free speech and free expression. Yet the same newspaper could never legally print David Irving's opinions (Irving is currently sitting in an Austrian prison for his whacko opinions regarding Holocaust denial). Even our mighty eBay is banned from advertising Nazi memorabilia in some European countries.

Meanwhile, here in the U.S., some neocon bloggers are pushing a "Buy Danish" campaign as a way of demonstrating support for the "American" value of free speech. Yet I am relatively certain that if these same alleged defenders of freedom (anyone remember Freedom Fries) would be at the forefront of the boycott if it were offensive to Christians or mocked Jesus. [e.g. Even this description is going to be offensive and it offends me extremely but I'm providing it as an example: In the U.S. we have been beset by Priest sex abuse scandals. If an evil-hearted cartoonist were to draw Jesus receiving felatio from a boy in a little-league uniform with a U.S. flag patch on the shoulder while a coterie of Christian clergy looked on in smiling, angelic admiration, we'd ALL be boycotting Denmark together.] In fact, they already DID this when the movie "The Passion of the Christ" came out. My, what short memories.

Now to the heart of the matter: the boycott itself. You call it retarded. I call it the only sane thing to do.

Yes. There should be freedom of speech [there ISN'T in the West but sometimes people can't see what's right in front of them but that doesn't negate the idea that there SHOULD be freedom of speech].
Yes. The newspapers, cartoonists, etc may not be Muslim and are not obliged to follow Muslim requirements.
Yes. The offense was committed by one newspaper and not an entire nation.
Yes. We in the West have come to realize that the hate-mongering, racism, xenophobia of a few speaks more to their individual character and upbringing than anything else.

All of that is fine, but it's also completely irrelevant. The cartoons were intended to provoke and insult and they did. Congratulations. There is a statue (much worse than a drawing) of the Prophet (PBUH)on the US Supreme Court. There was no intent to insult or provoke (in fact quite the opposite) and while we would rather that there be no depictions of the Prophet, there is no uproar.

For people to continue to buy goods from those who have insulted them would be "retarded." While it's true that the newspaper isn't directly affected, the overall impact will be devestating. If only one company, Arla, is impacted to the tune of at least $1 billion, then the pain will be felt throughout Denmark and the resentment, within Denmark, toward those who first published the cartoon will grow.

If you are a grocer who has an ill-mannered child who hurls abuses at shoppers, don't be surprised when shoppers choose to patronize other stores. For someone to strike the child, (terror, violence) would be insanity. To continue to patronize the shop would be idiocy. To register your displeasure and take your business elsewhere is the only sane thing to do.

Thanks for reading,
American Islamist

 
At 2/04/2006 01:08:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

RE some previous comments about limits to the freedom of expression:

Yes, there should be some restrictions on free speech, but these restrictions have to be very specific or else no one really has freedom of speech at all.

In the US, freedom of speech does not protect slander and libel, child pornography, or inciting violence. BUT, these restrictions have specific conditions that are decided by the laws and courts of each country. Being "disrespectful" or "childish" or "hurting someone's feelings" are not good restrictions because they're too broad and could apply to practically anything.

Should silly movies and slapstick comedies be banned because they're "childish"? Surely not. And how could we publicly debate political issues if we can't say anything that might hurt the feelings of the other political party?

If Muslims in Denmark think that the cartoons violated the law, then they should take the newspaper to court. I'm not Danish and I don't know if there are clauses in Danish law regarding "hate speech" or "fighting words" etc. If there are, and if some Danish citizens feel that the cartoons qualify, then they can take legal action and let the courts decide. (I personally don't think they qualify as hate speech etc., because they're no worse than millions of other cartoons that criticize gov't leaders, other religions, etc. but if someone else feels differently, they can try to make a legal case against the newspaper. If they don't like the laws or the court decisions, they can work within the legal/political system to make reforms, elect different leaders, pass new laws, etc. If making changes is impossible because the vast majority of citizens think differently and/or the Danish constitution is opposed to their aims, then perhaps they should move elsewhere.

People in other countries can voice their opinions and, if they choose, boycott Danish products. If other governments have different laws and standards for their media, they can ban the offensive content from being published there. But ultimately a Danish newspaper which is written and distributed in Denmark is answerable only to Dansih law with ragards to what is protected as free speech and what is not. And clearly Danish law does not forbid speech that is "disrespectful" or might hurt someone's feelings.

In Western democracies, you do not have the right to never be offended.

 
At 2/04/2006 01:27:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

i hope they keep up with the protests and keep singing kill kill, death to the west and maybe the west will see them for what they realy stand for. as for the Danish they are one of the most environmentally friendly leading countries in the world and are an example to the best of us.

 
At 2/05/2006 06:34:00 AM, Anonymous muslim girl said...

hey,anonymous

we don't call for killing,and we didn't even start mocking religious symbols !!!
All muslims around the world belive in religious freedom,and freedom of speech,butttt,abc of press rules is not to insult the religion charachters or symbols,and ask the cartoonists themselves they will answer u..
Bottom of the line is,a simple apology would of satisfy all muslims around the world,but really what made us all feel that much anger is the insist not to apology
So,pay 4 ur insist !!!u deserve it ...

 
At 2/05/2006 07:36:00 AM, Anonymous muslim Girl said...

Hey,Yasmina
Actually,i don't understand ur point of view in defending wrong??
Ramadan children series ,that had charachters made of clay didn't mock from all the prophts they handle their life story!!
plus,they meant to deliver a message to the children,that was the purpose my lady..What was the purpose of the cartoons,i wonder !!
Plus,,,,no one call for executing denmark people,noooo it is not islam...but u have to appreciate the anger feeling that we all feel towards that isult,and it is insult don't u dare deny it..
No matter reasons and justifications of the cartoons,they wronged us,islam and our prophet that we love...
Tell me what does it mean to know that muslim people appreciate muhamed,sooo let us insult him???
For god sake,tell me???and even if a bunch of narrowminded cartonists have wronged,what does it mean to insist not to apology???
Only one meaning,that they meant to insult and they know what they r doin...
I hope that u could of realize

 
At 2/05/2006 02:52:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

So freedom of expression allows people to go ahead a bash anything or anyone .... with no respect what so ever? Actually what was the whole purpose of publishing these cartoons in the first place?...and why pick on Mohammed specifically, why not on Ghandi, Mozart, Mother Teressa, Moses or Jesus, or God himself?

 
At 2/06/2006 01:18:00 AM, Anonymous Mahmoud... said...

Ive got two things to say and whoever want to argue..bring it on:
1) Freedom of speech is something, and ridiculing other people for no reason is another, the two cant meet..and everything has its limits

2)The boycotting is working already, alot of Danish companies are losing loads of money as sales in the middle east have gone way down. One of them happens to be arlafoods.

 
At 2/06/2006 09:23:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

A real christian don't tolerate any muslim and his country anymore. it is time the clean up our world!

 
At 2/06/2006 10:14:00 AM, Anonymous Ruth said...

Just curious. Are there any comedians in Muslim cultures? What makes the angry groups of Muslims laugh?

Great Dane Ruth

 
At 2/06/2006 12:05:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sandmonkey, you're a sensible person. Respect to you from Denmark - Salam.

 
At 2/06/2006 01:23:00 PM, Anonymous Mahmoud... said...

You think...?
Well lets see, how about we kick out all the christians from the middle east, from what I'm seeing, westerners are moving in to the middle east.Why? the middle east is now one fo the richest places to live in and one of the best. and we, muslims, tolerate christians but you dont see us mocking them.

 
At 2/06/2006 04:02:00 PM, Blogger MOHAMED ALI said...

first of all i'd like to tell u that an amount of 105 million dollars in 4 days as a loss of one danish factory " ARLA " can be SOMETHING, it's not nothing and will never do anything, so what will you say about all the muslims boycotting? and why? because the country who made a mistake doesn't want to apologise officially? you find it reasonable? isn't it in the christanity " if someone slapped u on ur right cheek turn him the left?" , isn't the danish country feeling misjudged? ok why doesn't she turn the left cheek? and apologise to the 1300000 muslim she offended and stops all that war and rage against her that started but we never know when it will stop?
u call someone who boycotts you retard? just because it's about cartoons? it's not just because of the cartoons regardless of mocking and insulting as if prophets and beliefs are to be messed with, if even those things we mess with, what will be the limit? no limit? of course there has to be, everything has a limit at least in a human brain, there is nothing with no limit or end in a human philosophy.
And let me tell u something, it's not just about mohammed, u think drawing jesus, the prophet of god is right? u think if jesus or moses or dunno who is being mocked so mohamed or mohamed followers have to accept it? HAVE? there is nothing called HAVE if u r talking about the freedom of the speech, it's just those peple doesn't accept that, just say sorry and they will forgive you, aren't u CIVILIZED? ok CIVILIZED people say sorry when they r wrong!

 
At 2/07/2006 12:41:00 AM, Blogger Nuri said...

Mohamed Ali,
the government doesn't have to apologize, it doesn't own the newspaper. it's a PRIVATE newspaper. why is it so hard for muslims to understand that? It's 12 individuals who drew those cartoons, not DANISH PEOPLE as a whole or the DANISH GOVERNMENT. And they drew them in THEIR country.

 
At 2/07/2006 02:32:00 PM, Blogger MOHAMED ALI said...

mononoke
even if what you're saying is right, and in your opinion the government doesn't have to apologise because she doesn't own the newspaper or dunno what, won't she do it exceptionally to calm down the fire and rage in the muslim hearts and minds against her? as a whole country? i think a clever country would!

 
At 2/07/2006 02:46:00 PM, Anonymous Theodor Hertzel said...

i would just like to tell the whole world that we started with muslims and it seems to be working, but i'm telling the others that their turn will come too, no one will be safe until we dominate the world and set our laws as masters even if that will cost us wars with all the countries,and yes i support the boycott and i suggest the israeli products as alternative !!

 
At 2/07/2006 02:57:00 PM, Anonymous Soren (Danish man) said...

NOW it is about time that that every muslim in the whole world appoligies to the Danish people for the burning of flags and embadsides. BUT THEN AGAIN NO it would not be fare that all muslims are hold responcible for the acts of very few people. On the other side it is not fare that all 5.5 million danish people (of which 200.000 are muslim) are hold responcible of the dooings of ONE news paper!!!!!

 
At 2/08/2006 05:17:00 AM, Blogger Nuri said...

Mohamed Ali,
If you are capable of admitting that the Danish government is not responsible, and following your argument, you'd actually accept apologies from let's say.... Iceland? If i ever step on your foot you'd accept apologies from my next door neighbor?

 
At 2/08/2006 05:20:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

All this talk of the right to free speach, allso includes the right to offend? It does. The right to free speach is summed up in just one sentence. "I detest what you say, but will defend your right to say it, till death."

 
At 2/08/2006 02:42:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The cartoons have been published in a danish newspaper. If any people living in Denmark have anything against the publishing, they should bring their complaints to court, and the issue will be looked through according to danish law. That is the logical way of solving this.

The pragmatic political way is to say: To hell with principles about free speech. People have died in violent manifestations, and we don't want that. We apologize for the pictures.

The wrong that has been made is that the whole thing has been blown out of its real proportions. It has become an international issue, a show-off of western christo-liberal and eastern muslim weapons, when it really is nothing more than an exclusively danish affair.

 
At 2/08/2006 03:23:00 PM, Blogger pinion said...

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
Voltaire, (Attributed)

In what light can we see the reactions of the fanatics who respond to with violence to those who might try to communicat with them by what ever means they choose.. cartoon, editorial, movie, video, blogg, note in bottle...

"I disapprove of what you say and will kill you for it" annonomus fanatic

Doesn't leave much room to develop confidence that we might learn from each other in times of need.

And we have a time of need, global and all encompassing right now.

Global warming might just be the biggest smiter of believers and non believers alike. It will be a long and cruel war and it will take no prisoners.

If freedom of speach is curtailed by fanatics, and it seems that we are in the midst of such an epsode of repression, the discussion that might just save the planet from cooking to death will be swept under the carpet and not acted upon. I can't think who might have an interest in seeing that happen.

 
At 2/08/2006 10:33:00 PM, Anonymous Ibn Rush said...

I'm atheist, so I dislike fanatics os every family and I'm very happy with te cartoons and with the consequences of them. While Christians at least has been tamed or civilized, that is not the case of muslim, and the problem is not that they are more retarded than westerners, but the control that islamism has on them from childhood, specially the Madrassas. I don't see any solution for the time being. Ataturk was a miracle and miracles are scarce. That is why I see this happening as fortunate. This is an eyeopener to the West or at least so I hope. Since we know our own fanatics, we now know very well who we are confronting when fighting the muslims. The difference is that we have a lower proportion of fanatics and a long tradition of democracy. But the fight is not going to be easy, mainly because of oil. Discussing free speech with fanatic islamists is like speak in a language the other don't understand. How can them if they never knew democracy and one of its main component, free speech? They are used to domesticated press and hey think that in the west, as in their countries, press speaks for the govenments and can be closed by these at will? Tha's why they don't understan why the danish government cannot apologize and close Jylland Posten. Sandmonkey is a rare gem in that worl of darknes. But I' wont bet in his security, waht leads me to think he is a brave man.

I don't think that muslim are better or worst than their counterparts in the west. The problen is that normal muslims are living, socially, in the 15th century, and then, the brotherly christian were staking, toturing and burning heretics, muslims and jews under the peaceful and pious presence of faithful, decent and pious catholics. For changing that state of affairs it would be nedeed a reformation and a lot of guys like Spinoza, Erasmus, Galileo, Voltaire, Hume, Locke and the american and french revolutions. Nothing of this have happened there. But I think that the battle in the horizon will help a lot. And for the 20% of worl population who belongs to islamism, there are 80% of infidels who surely dont like cutting hands, beheading, praying 5 time a day, oppressing women, marryng 4 wives, and having governments who reprsnts only their personal interes an those of the Mullahs. Besides, some of them value very much real freeedom of speech which include disrespect of ideas,religions, opinions and person, among other thing because "respect" is a relative concept. You, muslims, disrespect on a daily basis, christianism (pe.g. pedophile priests) and judaism, an for me that is totally ok. Also is ok for me to criticize the pedophilia of yur prophet.

 
At 2/08/2006 11:16:00 PM, Blogger Nuri said...

I agree with you, Anonymous. Free Speech, YES but with responsibility. I read an interview of Günter Grass. In his opinion, it's a deliberate "attack" from this "right wing" newspaper in Denmark. He says the newspaper talked to an islamic expert before publishing the cartoons and he alerted them. I don't think it was necessary even though it's their right because every religion has been made fun of at some point, and it's their view of Islam (wonder why?) and all that...
"If any people living in Denmark have anything against the publishing, they should bring their complaints to court" -completely agree with you there. Burning flags and embassies and killing people is just... a reminder of the Middle Ages.

 
At 2/09/2006 06:00:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is all about respect!!!!!!

I believe you. Based on everything I've heard about the Arab world, it indeed is about respect. It's obviously not about Mohammad or even about religion.

This huge importance of honor and respect in Arab, or, generally Middle-Eastern, culture may stem from the fact that before the oil boom, Arabs (in the Arabian peninsula and adjacent regions) were nomads. The property of nomads is easy to steal. Therefore, to prevent theft the owners of herds need a powerful deterrent: an intimidating reputation. To maintain an intimidating reputation one can't tolerate being laughed at or insulted in any way. Exactly the same culture exists all over the world under similar conditions. American cowboys of old, the herders of North Caucasus etc. are all similar in this respect. Even Lappish reindeer herders in the far north of Scandinavia were known for being macho men.

In contrast, farming had been the main livelihood in Europe for ages before the industrial revolution. We take ourselves and everything else much less seriously.

Arab oil and gas reserves are a huge problem for the rest of the world. Or more precisely, the fact that Arabs happen to be living on top of the resources is a huge problem. Doing business with Arabs or other Middle Easterners is painful for others because Arabs are extremely difficult customers if they perceive the slightest insult. I've heard stories from experienced Western businessmen where the Arab reactions have been utterly out of scale from a Western perspective. The Japanese also have unwritten honor codes that are difficult to follow for outsiders, but they tend forgive the gaijin their inevitable gaffes.

 
At 2/09/2006 06:54:00 AM, Anonymous Theodor Hertzel said...

hehe see muslims?
last time i said "we wanna rule the world and the turn will come for others"
but no one answers me nor even commented :P~~ while u r boycottin and stuffs and dunno what.. and they all comment on u, pathetic muslims :P~~
why don't u convert all to judism? maybe they hear ur voices ...hehe...
again i am with the boycott and i suggest israeli products as alternative :D shalom !

 
At 2/09/2006 07:41:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

!? Don't you get it? In Denmark we don't take things very seriously! You can draw Jesus, you can say he's the biggest Jerks in the whole world, We don't care... We have freedom of speech, and the only thing which we can't do in Denmark is threaten people and say something very negative about other religions... with the keyword "Say" For eksample a politician can't say "Muslims are a plague and should be destroyed" that's illigal in Denmark! so the only limitation in our freedom of speech is racism, which is a good thing for every people of another religion or culture... but to draw a picture is NOT racism, therefore it is legal... and another thing is that if there's one thing in Denmark we treasure it is our sense of humor, and our ability to not take our self too serious which is an ability some people lack *hint*... Anyways you can draw anything you'd like to, we won't be offended... Well some might, but that would be a minority of the people in Denmark... and now to exercise my freedom of speech "God is stupid!" HAHA!:-)

 
At 2/09/2006 09:57:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The only reason why the cartoons were published is to stir stuff up. Now everyone wants to talk about it. Most people get an adrenaline rush my stirring things up. I dont think it was right, but I do think its funny. If someone wants to publiclly humiliate me, I would not like it. I would be embarrassed, But in the short, it is always done to start some type of public interest. That is what makes us all human. For anyone that goes off the deep end and wants to commit murder for that reason, that just dosn't seem human to me.

 
At 2/09/2006 11:49:00 AM, Blogger Nuri said...

If one of the cartoonist dared publish a cartoon where his boss is depicted as a greedy pig, his boss would be indeed talking about freedom of speech?... maybe, but i bet the cartoonist would lose his job

 
At 2/09/2006 12:52:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Allow me a quote from a satire in another Danish newspaper:

"Mr Muslim, why are you burning the Danish flag, spitting on it and setting fire to our embassies and threatening to kill all Danes?"

"We are doing that to protest against the way the West depicts Muslims as people who burn flags and embassies and threaten to kill all Danes. It's quite insulting, actually."

Henrik

 
At 2/09/2006 01:09:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

So many lies and even more misunderstandings:

False: The Danish Prime Minister does not wish to apologize.

True: The Danish PM CANNOT apologize since he is not responible for the newspaper. In Denmark the individual is legally responsible for his/her own acts. Therefore, for the PM to apologize on behalf of others would be absurd in Danish culture.

False: 72% of the Danes support the printing of the cartoons.

True: Most Danes thought printing the cartoons was a bad and unwise idea. However 72 % admit that the Prime Minister cannot/should not apologize.

False: The cartoons are an attempt to ridicule the Prophet (peace be upon him.

True: The "bomb on the head" cartoon is a criticism of the suicide bombers who misuse their Prophets name when killing innocent people.

False: The Danish newspaper has not apologized.

True: The Danish newspaper did apologize for hurting the feelings of Muslims. However, the apology was rejected because the newspaper did not add the words "peace be upon him" after writing the word "prophet".

The list of misunderstandings is endless....

Henrik, a Dane

 
At 2/09/2006 04:55:00 PM, Blogger Pukel said...

“In Australia they attacked Lebanese people only based on their ethnic origin.” By Anonymous 12:29PM

An interesting comment. Sounds like some Lebanese were just walking along minding their own business when some Australians decided – on a whim – “Let us go beat up some Lebanese!” Not quite how it happened…

http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2005/12/13/181830/80
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Cronulla_race_riots


The trigger for this was some life savers asked some young Lebanese men to stop disrespecting women on the beach. The Lebanese decided to declare that the particular section of beach belonged to them and roughed up the life-savers. Life-savers are an icon of Australian culture and so with all the pay-back it just all went to hell from that point.

 
At 2/09/2006 06:31:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

From a Dane
I agree with my fellow countrymen and our government, and add..that flag burning and stuff, really make me love muslims (ironi)...! a few destroys alot for others.
Cartoons ,misinformation and muhammad, made this happend.

Keld a happy dane

 
At 2/09/2006 07:45:00 PM, Blogger patrick said...

If insulting representations of Mohammed are reason enough for boycotts, what to say about the extreme overreactions like.
"Behead those who insult Islam"

There is a basic and almos absurd intolerance of any kind here, from religious fanatics who hold life cheap and their fragile sense of 'honor' dear.

Mohammed of the Hadith, which is taken as truth to Muslims, was a warlord who raided caravans, incited violence, fought battles and executed defeated enemies, had troublemakers killed (even ones who were merely satirists - Rushdie take note!). Would saying these things be blasphemy? Then all you Islamicist and Muslims haters of Denmark need to go burn some of your own Hadith and Quran etc. for they are putting Mohammed in a far far far worse light than any cartoon ever could.

 
At 2/10/2006 04:03:00 AM, Anonymous Janderson said...

Meh, Freedom of Speech is lame. When you support that, you support Racism, Sexism and any other kind of Mal-ism. It's a shame you half arsed athiests can't see from others' perspective. When you are a muslim you live 'in' your religion, not 'by' it like Christians or Jews. An insult to a muslim's religion is an insult to his way of life. That's regular muslims.

Now you've got the fundamentalists in the street to think about.

And to add insult to injury despite the fact they are tasteless AND tactless the cartoons weren't even funny.

It's funny that people are all for freedom of speech, yet they condemn the arab protest signs.

Laughable.

 
At 2/10/2006 01:07:00 PM, Anonymous R L Posselt said...

"3 - Some People, obviously you're one of them, mistake freedom of expression as freedom to insult."

One comment said the above... I am sorry to disagree, but freedom of expression is EXACTLY that; the freedom to insult! If freedom of expression meant only that you could express whatever everyone could agree on, what worth would it have? The value of freedom of expression is exactly, that you're free to express opinions that insult, offend or upset people. That is what starts a debate, and debate is what (hopefully) makes us all wiser, and help us solve the problems our society faces.

 
At 2/10/2006 05:31:00 PM, Anonymous Jesper said...

I am Danish, writing from Denmark, and I feel like I should comment a bit on this blog.

Amidst all the horrible things that has happened the last few weeks, this blog really gave me a bit of hope back.

Let me explain my approach to the whole deal...

The first time I heard about the 12 cartoons in Jyllands Posten was when some Danish muslim Imams complained about them to the Danish government.

At first I thought they where just being radical muslims, like the radical christians who complained when a danish artist made a portrait of Jesus being naked in a not so flattering situation.

But then later on I realized after hearing a lot of muslim comments that not portraying muhammed is something people really care a lot about.

In christianity it is also illegal (religionwise) to portrait god, but it hasn't been enforced for centuries, so that is probably the reason it came as a big surprise to most Danish people quite how unhappy it made muslims.

Had we really known that normal non radical muslims would be so largely offended and hurt by the cartoons we would have taken the whole matter a lot more serious a lot sooner.

Now to the point.

The reason I was so happy reading this blog is the fact that you really understand that this was done by 1 newspaper in Denmark which in no way at all reflected the Danish attitude towards muslims.

When I speak with my danish friends their commentaries varries from "It's riddiculous that some cartoons can amount war sceenes like this", to "What Jyllands Posten did was a stupid thing, but that does not justify burning danish flags and embassies, since 99,9% of the Danish people who are affected by this never even had a saying about it".

I know I speak for a lot of Danish people, when I say that we feel very frustrated and hurt by the whole deal. I can't really see what I has done wrong as a person since so many muslims feel them self justified to take my life.

Also the death threats are against all Danish people, including the 110.000 muslim Danish citizens. They must be really confused as to why they should be punished by something a Danish newspaper has done.

It also is a bit absurd to show that muhammed has nothing to do with bombs by threatning with bombs.

This also poses a great threat for the comming generations as small Danish kids can not understand why they see pictures in the danish news of muslims burning the danish flag and stating that all danish people should be killed.

How should you explain to a small danish kid that even though they see those pictures every day and hear about it in the media every day it does not mean that muslims are violent. If the parents do not take special care, they risk giving the kids the wrong impression which can be really hard to get rid of later in life.

Some radical danish people have tried to make an even more stupid boycut towards the danish muslims, saying we should not buy anything from their stores in Denmark.

Luckily that gave the exact opposite effect leading to a much much bigger campaign in Denmark saying that you should in fact buy even more from your muslim shops, and "give your muslim vedgetable store owner an extra smile", since they had really nothing to do with the fact that a few muslim radicals are going in to the extreme.

That led to a funny story I read in the newspaper today, where a muslim female shop owner was interviewed, stating that most of her danish customers had acted really strange lately smiling at her constantly from they entered the shop to they left.

She said that she wished that people would just act natural about it instead of assuming that they had to be nice not to hurt her feelings. After all she was also a Danish citizen and it hurt her feelings as well when she saw the Danish flag being burned in the middle east.

That made me laugh quite a bit, as I could quite well imagine the well meaning danish people going arround in the shop with a big unnatural smile while the poor woman was going "What the heck is going on here".

Also the story acted as a good reminder not to take things out of proportions.



It can be summed up quite easily:

Yes we have freedom of speach, but it was totally unnescessary to publish those cartoons.

Not because it is illegal in Islam, because Islam is not beyond our laws, and you should never mix religion and politics.

But because it hurts a lot of people, that have done nothing to deserve it without doing any good.

It is also my honest PERSONAL oppinion that Jyllands posten would never have brought those cartoons had they known that they would hurt the feelings of the 99,9% of muslims who are not radical.

I think we have all learned much from this whole deal about how deeply muslims care about their religion, but sadly I can feel that the mood is starting to turn the last week, after the embassy burnings.

More and more people in Denmark that where listening to the Muslims, are starting to think that the situation is insane and it is not worth the hassle.

The view being: "It's like it makes no difference what we say or do. Muslims have just decided to hate us worldwide, so the only thing we can do is pack up our stuff and leave all muslim countries alone."

I think it is very very important that people like you writing the blog keep writing your oppinion, such that the Danish people can see, that not all people in the middle east agrees on hating Denmark as a whole.

(Which should be plain logical, but it always improves ones feelings to actually read it in words)

 
At 2/11/2006 07:36:00 AM, Anonymous Theodor Hertzel said...

i have good news for muslims , spinney's boycotting danish products...
hehe .... happy now? i'm happier, can't wait for israeli products to be all over the world :D

 
At 2/11/2006 10:20:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Another Dane ...

It seems to me that no one has asked the most obviusly questions ...

1. Why do a danish cartoonist draw a picture og Prophet Muhamed with a bomb on his head ?

To insult 1.5 billion people ? for fun ? or because he sees the Prophet as so ?

Remember that in the west, we don't only se Islam as a religion, but also see Islam as an instrument of terror, and in this regard, the cartoon of the Prophet with the bomb, may have its justification. I don't think the drawing was ever intended to insult the whole muslim world, but it sends a clear message - islam (or any religion) has also a unacceptable face, when used in conjunction with terror.

Ask your selves, what is the greatest insult, the Prophet being drawn or the Prophet been used in a political sceme to gain power or to kill political apponents or just innocent people ?

Maybe we all should protest against the people that uses the or any Prophet for their own personal profit and gain, causing so much trouble for the majority of others. that just want to live their lives in pease and understanding.


2. Why do the danish Imam's lie to 1.5 billion fellowmen ?

To insult 1.5 billion people ? for fun ? or for political reasons ?

12 pictures became 16 pictures on the Imam's roundtrip in the middle east, amoung those a picture of a frenchman with pig nose and pig ears, taken on a french pig-festival last year a year long french tradition. Misinformation spread abount burning the coran in denmark, wich is not true, misinformation about them representing most muslims in denmark, wich is not true (the oldest and biggest muslim group in denmark is the turkish group with aprox 40.000 members, the Imam's representing aprox. 2000 or 1 % off all), statements said in denmark in english, same statement said in arabich (we thougt) but translated the oppersite was said, same imam has connections to some of the most radical muslim organisations, known to link to terror.

Why believe such men ? For any other than political reasons ?


3. Why is Norway and other european contries a part of this matter, when Egypth isn't ?

The drawings has apparently also been published 17. oktober 2005 in Egypth newspaper.

 
At 2/11/2006 11:50:00 AM, Blogger AyyA said...

The Sphinx
“how much the media can verbally obliterate somebody's image by distorting the truth, lying about certain happenings, and turning quotes around so that they say the opposite of what was originally meant, all just to put up a good sensational story, totally ruining a person's life and image in the process. Is THAT what you call freedom of speech?”
I wonder: isn’t this what mullah’s and shiekhs are doing with this case? Or should I say “have been doing in ages”

 
At 2/13/2006 01:55:00 PM, Blogger bewildered Viking said...

A few danish thoughts about the current topic.

This is not to be considered a issue of debate as much as a chance for me to get some things of my chest. Rather than speking out to my friends, who would mostly agree with me anyway, I seek a more international forum.

First let's be clear about one thing. The scism of the Muhammed cartoons is the first time in, litterally, decades that Denmark has recieved comparable bad press on the international scene.

It is an everlasting truth that in times of crisis, someone always tries to sell you an easy solution to a complicated problem. Not in the sence that the peddlers of these solutions weren´t there all the time, but suddenly the willingness to listen to them increases dramatically.

Now perhaps muslim readers think that I refer to the muslim respons to the events, but I am not. I am talking about domestic Denmark. This small dot on the map which has prospered in the refected sun of the western hemisphere for fifty years. The people that for generations have not been forced to take a radical stance to anything. The danish tradition is one of compromise. Nothing will make a dane happier than leaving a debate in which everybody were right, everybody won.

The case of the Muhammed Cartoons has grown out of proportion, out of comprihention to just about all "average" danes. (the danish term is "leverpostejs-danskere", refering to a paté made of the liver of, yes, pigs)
Most danes don´t know where to stand. On the one hand, more than most reasonably thinking danes would never dream of insulting an individual, not least a whole people, on basis of religion, just for the kick of it. On the other hand this case stirs up somthing deaply rooted in many danes. A concept so fundamental that we take it for granted. The concept of free speech. No dane alive today can remember where it came from. In fact, it is only now, when it is questioned, that we have even started discussing it.

The other day I went down to the gym to move a little weight from my beer-laced abdomon. This is not a place where politics is usually discussed. Normally, the most intellectual respons you would get was from your sweat towel. This day was different, however. Some of these Steroidridden monsters were actually discussing, debating and with rising indignation talking about the loss of free speech, the burning of the flag and the barbarians at the gate. I myself did not participate in the conversation, as I judged a wrong opinion, of which I have many, might meet with corporal punishment.

The reason that I mention this, is to illustrate the impact this has had in Denmark. In my own lifetime I remember only one comparable event: when Denmark won the Euro92.
(European national teams football cup to the americans)
That summer I had the privilidge of visiting Egypt and Kuwait. I tell you, it was a good summer to be danish out in the world. wherever I went, I was greeted by it. "ahh, you beat germany 2-0", !how about that team!", "do you play football yourself?". "the first goal was brilliant!"
It was quite wonderful.

Next time it will be different, I fear.
Danes will no longer merely be associated with feta cheese, bulk goods delivered on time, lego bricks and those little plastic thermostats on radiators. We will also be considered that annoying brat, who just didn´t know when to shut up. I sympathise with the journalists who have recieved death threats. I sympathise with the dairy farmers in Jutland, who will now go bankrupt. But I also sympathise with the palestinian people, the israeli people, the american peple and the iraqi people.

This must be my statement of free speech. The right to sympathise with whomever I want.

Danish people love to have it both ways. So cant we end this conflict of cultures. The danes would be do happy.

--Fredrik

 
At 2/14/2006 11:22:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hmmmm I think Muslims take this matter seriously ,,, I think that they're strict about their religion and have respect for it .. actually I admire that ! we make fun of Jesus and it passes by ,, but we see Muslims protesting world wide !! I think that really offended them and their respect and honor ,, yet I wonder if there's gonna be a strong attack on Denmark ??
And the boycott seems a way to start a peaceful war ! but how much damage has been so far ??and will that affect the Danish industry ? it's like saying sense that they don't want us we don’t want them !
imagine this example if u have a friend and he insulted u in a way, I think that u don't have to do anything with him anymore cuz u hate him now and he hates u !
the writer should have thought a lot before doing this ! even America didn't do such thing @0@

 
At 2/14/2006 11:24:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hmmmm I think Muslims take this matter seriously ,,, I think that they're strict about their religion and have respect for it .. actually I admire that ! we make fun of Jesus and it passes by ,, but we see Muslims protesting world wide !! I think that really offended them and their respect and honor ,, yet I wonder if there's gonna be a strong attack on Denmark ??
And the boycott seems a way to start a peaceful war ! but how much damage has been so far ??and will that affect the Danish industry ? it's like saying sense that they don't want us we don’t want them !
imagine this example if u have a friend and he insulted u in a way, I think that u don't have to do anything with him anymore cuz u hate him now and he hates u !
the writer should have thought a lot before doing this ! even America didn't do such thing @0@

 
At 2/15/2006 03:12:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The prophet Muhammed PBUH was insulted , rediculed , and even stoned during his life.What was his reaction ? What did he do PBUH ?

He was the most merciful human being , he forgave them , he prayed for there guidance, he was patient.

He had the power and the means to eradicate whole communities .... but he didn't he said maybe there is one good person that will be harmed so he didn't.


Maybe there is one good person in Denmark which this boycott will harm. Yes I love the prophet PBUH as all practising muslims do. Yes I love him more than myself , than my family than my children. I haven't seen the cartoons and I don't want too, but what I read and was told was more than enough to enfuriate me.Nevertheless, I forgive the Newspaper Editor and the Cartoonist and hope they read about the life and message of the man they so casually insulted. I hope they repent of there actions and ask God for forgiveness, and I hope they and other people responsible for media companies realize the power the are entrusted with and all the lives they could have saved if they did there jobs more responsably.

 
At 2/17/2006 09:18:00 AM, Anonymous Hugo said...

Yes, freedom of speech DOES mean the freedom to insult; and additionally, the freedom to belittle, the freedom to mock, the freedom to deride and the freedom to satirize. Nobody has the right to expect anything to be immune from derision, be it a company, a nation state or an entire religion.

If someone wanted to insult me, my religion (or lack of it in my case), my ethnicity, my nationality, ANYTHING -- I wouldn't be easily offended, but if I was, I would consider it the mature attitude to ignore it. I do not rise to puerile provocation -- what benefit is there to that? Will my getting angry prevent further insults? Of course not; in fact, it would probably provoke further insults and derision and make me look like a twat in front of everyone. But that's exactly what all these protesting morons are doing.

Mohammed, whatever his significance, was a human being like any other. To those who don't attach any significance to him, depicting him is no different to depicting any other human being. Leading figures from every religion in the world have been depicted throughout history in all sorts of unflattering scenarios, which must sure offend a lot of people. Surely, if your beliefs are strong enough and your commitment sincere, such criticisms should just pass you by? One way or the other, Islam has its opponents in great numbers, just as any large religion does, and they WILL have their say; whatever they say is bound to offend those whose religion they oppose. The key to surviving these Islam haters is just to shrug them off as the ignorant fools muslims surely should know them to be. They are irrelevant. So put down the placards, stop shouting, and above all LOSE THE ANGER -- just disregard everything your opponents say, and feel stronger in your belief that you are better than they are. That's the only way to defeat them.

Sandmonkey, I am absolutely delighted to have found possibly the only such considered, level-headed, rational response from someone in the arab world to the whole cartoon debacle. If I could shake your hand, I would. You've confirmed to me that there is nothing inherently violent about Islam and its followers; the violence exists only in the heads of some morons who twist Islam into an excuse for their inhumanity. I only hope calm and reason will prevail before anger once again consumes the world.

Peace be upon you all.

 
At 2/17/2006 11:14:00 AM, Blogger SelflessWit said...

I also find the response of the "Muslim Community" to depictions of Muhammed in cartoons grossly disproportionate to their publication . A boycott of Danish goods is probably not going to be effective , but it does express the dissatifaction of Muslims in a civilized way . It is unfortunate that in 2006 we still have millions of basically uncivilized people ready to riot over percieved insults to their religion . I keep hearing the hypocritical chant "Islam is a religion of peace" . Not only has Islam been hijacked by fanatics bent on global imposition of Sharia , moderate Muslims (if there is such a thing) are the silent accomplices of the 'fundamentalists' .
The rioting in France over the injustice of the economic and cultural situation is understandable and comparable to the US riots of the 60's over civil rights for minorities . The riots in the Middle East over cartoon depictions of their chosen prophet is alarming in that it clearly shows the effects of systemic ignorance and intolerance taught in the schools in those countries . The Taliban destroyed a very significant Bhuddist sculpture merely to satisfy their ignorant and intolerant religious views . What was the response of the global Muslim community ? No rioting , no public denunciations . Muslims need to wake up to the fact that religion and religious freedom is a basic right of all individuals . Without this freedom and the recognition thereof , US Bhuddists would have been murdering innocent Muslims and destroying their property in a similar manner that we are seeing in the Middle East today .

 
At 2/19/2006 09:30:00 PM, Anonymous Barb said...

I am amazed at the reaction of the Muslim people to cartoons. But, most people visiting this site are of the same mind.

I just had to say though, in response to the person who asked how Americans would react if someone took a nude picture of Bush and published it. I can tell you one thing, we would not go through the streets and set innocent people on fire and kill children over it.

The person who took the picture might get arrested, as he would have been trespassing illegally, but that would be about the end of it. Life goes on......

 
At 11/10/2006 06:41:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

what do you know?

After you wrote this article scientists have found that the "sun rising from the west" is factual and will occur when the polar ice caps melt due to global warming.

The quran is the book of truth any everthing written in is from the creator that knows everything. the quran is full of knowledge.

21030
.. they not see that the heavens and earth were at one time joined together and with a blow he seperated them and made from water every living thing.
41011
he turned to the heaveans when it was smoke/gas. He said to it and to the earth. Come together, willingly or unwillingly. They both said. We come willingly.
24035
.. a brilliant star... whose oil (fuel) is well lit, even no fire touches it.
21033
.. created the night and the day. the sun and the moon. all heavenly bodies in an orbit are swimming.
55005
The sun and the moon follow courses exactly computed;
25061 / 10005
.. placed in the heavens constellations of stars, and placed the sun a great lamp and the moon a reflecting light.
51047
.. created the heaveans and earth and it is he who is steadily expanding it.
86003
.. By the heavens and the banging star that pierces the light(blackhole) ..
21104
.. on the day heavens will roll up like the rolling of a scroll



32005
// Moon orbital circumfernce. This number changes since the distance between the earth and the moon change.
// This is from nasa and probably an average) http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/planets/...&Display=Facts.
MYC = 2,290,000
// Estimated of distance the moon has traveled around the earth in 12,000 years.
// The actual distance would vary depending on the years in question.
MYCK = 27,480,000,000 = 12,000 * MYC
//Distance light travel in one day.
LD = 25,902,028,800
//the difference in distance traveled between 12,000 lunar years and one light day is 6% using the orbital circumfernce //provided by nasa.
~6%
Reply With Quote

 
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