Better late than never!
The american cartoonists finally strike back. Took them long enough. My favorite is this one.
posted by The Sandmonkey @ 2/23/2006 11:48:00 PM
Thursday, February 23, 2006
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16 Comments:
You'll love this one : http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/000783.html
Bye bye, Turkey!
For your information, Sandmonkey: the ruling political parti ("Venstre") of denmark has just announced Turkish membership of the EU more difficult than ever; after Turkey, wanting to be a mediator between the west (Denmark) and muslim countries, announced that denmark had to give an official excuse for the drawings of a private newspaper. Turkey, knowing this is a demand which CANNOT be given, just postponed its EU-membership application to the very very far future, if ever.
The Prime minister, and the government have voiced their STRONG disaproval of the drawings, asking for respectful dialogue - but they cannot go further without sucumbing free speech to islamists... It would mean the immidiate fall of the government!
The newspaper have given an official excuse to have hurt the feelings of muslims - is this blackmail from the arab world, or why wont they understand the difference between a private newspapert, the government, the prime minister, and the people... don't you have schools down there to teach about the structures of free societies?
Read in danish:
http://www.dr.dk/Nyheder/Politik/2006/02/24/090500.htm
Sorry that I post this here - but I couldn't find anywhere else on your terrific blog!
Cheers, and peace!
T.M.
T.M.,
did "Valley of the Wolves - Iraq" hit the Danish cinemas?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4700154.stm
(However, this articles leaves out that the doctor who cuts out the organs is portrayed is being Jewish, as it leaves out the poor Arab victims who lose their organs are still alife)
This movies caused an outrage in Germany, as it still does, since it's still being played. Well, Erdogan's wife recommended it publicly:
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/3942649.asp
I believe in freedom of expression, and so they are free to produce their anti-american, anti-semitic movies. I am curious if they are ready to accept the dramatically increasing resistance to any Turkish EU adherence as well ...
The Straits Times in Malaysia is now in DEEP shi-ite over a cartoon that didn't draw the prophet, just alluded. ..www.ucomics.com/nonsequitur/2006/02/20. Seems there's just no pleasing some folks.. Bill.
Blogspat -
in fact, Moslems are treated in most European countries in a racist way: "Don't worry about them being against freedom of expression --- that's their culture, they are simply like this".
Imagine what would happen if any of this were about, e.g., Romania and Bulgaria. Can you imagine e.g. "Romania asking official apology from Danish government because of caricature of historical hero"?
You might protest that there is still a difference between some Romanian historical hero and the prophet Mohammed, but sorry, no, from the POV of freedom of expression, there isn't.
If the official government is that far away from the simplest values Europe is built on, there is no way of accepting this country.
I would love to see the Turkey join the EU --- but a thoroughly Kemalist one, that distinguishes between religion and state, that takes responsibility of the Armenian genocide, that ends the occupation of Cyprus etc.
But at this time: I shall rather prefer a geographically smaller Europe than a value-diminished Europe, and I am so glad that someone finally spoke it out.
If you are interested, you can have a look at a collection of editorial cartoons from all over the world about this and other subjects, at the following address:
http://www.cagle.com
There you will see a section about the "Muhammad cartoons", with something like 20 pages of editorial cartoons related to the issue. All the cartoons that sandmonkey links to appear there, along with many more, across the whole spectrum of opinion.
Just my 2 cents!
JoseB
Blogspat:
I dont see anything positive in that - in fact I've been hoping EU would let Turkey join... But it dawns on me now, how very far away from western societies this country is: They had a chance to show EU and the ME, that they can build a bridge - took them right about 24 hours to destroy that possibility...sad!
Back to square on!
T.M.
Blogspat:
so if I can choose between alienating Turks by telling them "Freedem of expression matters", or appease them by "Whatever you say, you're probably right", I shall always choose the first one.
First question:
Do you think that a country like Turkey that is severely free-speech-challenged belongs to the EU?
If yes: Sorry, we've different opinions and this discussion stop now because it will be of no further avail. There are many people out there that by magic, everything in Turkey will be fine once they are EU member. I don't believe that, unfortunately.
If no: Why shouldn't we tell them before we start to discuss membership? If you don't tell them, this whole joining discussion is a ridiculous.
Blogspat:
I haven't heard of that, and if true, it would be an excellent sign for brighter days. Do you have a link?
However, it is definitely true that the Turkish ambassador in Danmark signed this infamous letter:
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7353/1246/1600/cartoonlettersignature.jpg
I bet he will not be sacked :-)
Hehe, I give up as well, we're probably having a serious problem of mutual understanding...
Here's the link:
http://www.rogerbuch.dk/jpabrev.pdf
Funnily enough, they don't want an apology but some legal steps to be taken.
I do know that Turkey received 'candidate' status. We'll see whether it helps them to change. But I'm pessimistic as always: At some time, they will be accepted into the EU, no matter how little they changed.
I never believed for one second that Turkey was going to be accepted as an EU member.. so no big loss there. However the possibility was dangled for a long time before Turkey as a carrot if it fulfilled 'this' or did 'that' and the Turks would have been kept indefinetely waiting even though their government did everything possible to try to erase its Muslim heritage to please the West.
As with regards to the movie : NO COMMENT... but it is a good excuse for Europe I guess :)
Highlander, I respect you and what you write in your blog very much, and this is why your opinion would be of special interest to me.
What do you mean with 'this' or 'that'? It was mostly about some basic ideals, like minority protection (hey, Kurds are Sunni moslems too!), protection against police violence. There wasn't anything anti-islamic in Europe's demands. I am just curious why you make those demands sounding so bitter. Don't you think those demands are always fair?
PS: I'll be in Libya in a month. Until yesterday, I was afraid that riots might spoil my eclipse. Now I am in fear of sandstorms as well, LOL. Great pictures, by the way. And I am glad that you're still online :-)
Interesting observation:
People of the religion Islam whom I've spoken to and have immigrated to Canada. Demand that the Danish government take responsibility and force an apology from the newspaper.
People who are not immigrants to Canada. Believe that only an apology can come from the newspaper if they so choose.
I think a lot of people don't understand that Freedom of speech means that you'll hear stuff you don't want to hear.
Interesting isn't it? I think the disconnect is that immigrants don't understand the "West" society as much as they lament the "West" for not understanding them.
G'day Sandmonkey, here are a few Australian cartoons published when all this stupidity over the cartoons started.
http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200602/r72363_201726.jpg
http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200602/r72355_201696.jpg
"task under law of the land".
It can be discussed what that means.
But the government can't take that initiative. It's the offended, who should report it to the police.
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