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Rantings of a Sandmonkey

Be forewarned: The writer of this blog is an extremely cynical, snarky, pro-US, secular, libertarian, disgruntled sandmonkey. If this is your cup of tea, please enjoy your stay here. If not, please sod off

Monday, March 06, 2006

Speaking of Iran

The dutch immigration minister is sending gay iranians and iranian christian converts assylum seekers back to Iran, because she no longer thinks there is any danger for them to go back there. No, seriously. Immigration minister Rita Verdonk says gay asylum seekers from Iran should be sent back home. Six months ago she had refused to send them back because two gay Iranian men had been executed there.

Verdonk said in a letter to the Second Chamber that there was no question of anyone being executed or sentenced to death purely on the basis of their being gay, although she did concede that gay sex was punishable by death by Iranian interpretation of Islamic law.

Even so, gay asylum seekers should be returned, she said, based on information from the Foreign Office about the actual situation in Iran. The two gay men were executed not for their sexuality but because they hadrobbed, kidnapped and raped a minor. Ok, fine, so those ones are robbers and raped a minor, what about the dozens others that got killed in similar situations? But she isn't satisfied with sending the gays to certain death, she is sending the christian converts as well. Verdonk says that asylum-seeking Iranian Christians who have converted from Islam, who also face strong societal disapproval, can also safely be sent back. Ehh, strong societal disapproval doesn't begin to describe it. They will get killed. They will die. Islam is clear. Any muslim who converts to another religion is ok to kill. End of story. She is sending them back to certain death.

D66 has requested a debate next week over Verdonk’s decision. The party is not convinced that the repatriation is as safe as she suggests.

LOL. You don't say?


At 3/06/2006 03:02:00 AM, Blogger Jordan said...

Its so wonderful that we take the police state Iran at their word.

Its not like they have (the worst kept) secret political prisons or anything.

And its not like they trump up charges on gays and other assorted "trouble-makers".

Denmark, don't be so golluble!

At 3/06/2006 03:18:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

First of all: Thanks a lot for your excellent blog - I find it very encouraging. I read it every day.

But as a Dane, I can tell right away that in this case you are getting thngs mixed up. You're talking about the Immigration Minister in Holland (the Netherlands) and not Denmark! I don't believe, Denmark would do such a thing.

Otherwise I agrre with you in almost any topic!

Keep up the spirit!

At 3/06/2006 03:18:00 AM, Anonymous Einherjar said...

Dutch or danish?

At 3/06/2006 03:20:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I know this commentary will get me into trouble, but just try to consider this:

If you were to give asylum to any Iranian to claims to have to converted to Christianity, well, you'll quickly get into some sort of uncontrolled immigration.

Don't forget that the completely depraved don't have problems to change their religion at will. You read BP's story about the nanny's brother, didn't you? He'll be definitely the first to ask for asylum as persecuted Christian as soon as everyone knows that it's that easy to get asylum.

To sum up, I do understand her decision perfectly well and support it.

At 3/06/2006 03:27:00 AM, Blogger The Sandmonkey said...

Guys, I must have Denmark on my mind or something. It was the dutch, not the danish. All apologies. I blame the cartoons!

At 3/06/2006 03:44:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Everybody else are blaiming the cartoons for everything, so why not.
The other day I threatened a person from my job, that I would torch his swim trunks because he disagreed about something. It could be called cultural exchange.
(He wasn't wearing the trunks.)

I have read it twice. It's in Holland, not in Denmark. But in Denmark (according to the Gay and Lesbian Society) being gay is not enough to be granted asylum. The refugee must substantiate personal persecution.
I think Sweden, Norway and Holland and maybe others agree about this.

Denmark send back a gay iranian asylum seeker some years ago. He was tortured in Iran and after some time he came back to Denmark again.
He is taking his case to the courts saying that sending him back was a violation of his human rights.
I can't give you details since I can't find his name - I tried to google his case.
Maybe other danish readers know the details?

About the converts I simply don't know. I haven't heard about any cases, where they were send back.
According to an official danish fact finding mission an apostate will be sentenced to death in Iran, but it wouldn't be executed, since admitting apostasi would mean that the person were insane.
But that is not the same as saying that converts are send back.



At 3/06/2006 04:36:00 AM, Anonymous Realist said...

I have a question for you, Sandmonkey. You said:

"Islam is clear. Any muslim who converts to another religion is ok to kill."

and in a previous post you stated that if Muslims had actually targeted the daughter of one of the cartoonists, then you would put your Islamic beliefs on hold.

While I don't agree with everything you say (I don't believe in Islamic reform, it is impossible because to Muslims the Koran is the word of God), I consider you a remarkably sane person who does his best to be fair.

My question is the following: how can you call yourself a Muslim and yet criticize something that is clearly written in the Koran? The death penalty for apostasy is clearly Islamic, and obviously incompatible with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (that no Islamic country signed, by the way).

I think you already left Islam a long time ago when you refused to allow yourself to be brainwashed by a culture of hatred for infidels. Good for you, you chose life over death.

At 3/06/2006 06:04:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The problem I guess is people faking homsexuality and christianity to stay.

At 3/06/2006 06:55:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's possible that there are genuine christian converts who are being sent back there to die. If so, then their deaths will be on the hand of this minister.

Unless the conversion is true, would any muslim lie about their sacred faith just to get asylum?


At 3/06/2006 11:21:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's possible that there are genuine christian converts who are being sent back there to die. If so, then their deaths will be on the hand of this minister.

Well, the death of any Ethiopian child that dies of hunger is on the conscience of this minister, following this logic. No, you cannot issue visas and residence permits randomly.

Unless the conversion is true, would any muslim lie about their sacred faith just to get asylum?

Err... yes! And the more moralley depraved they are, they more likely they will do so.

At 3/06/2006 03:48:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Perhaps the immigration minister should post a cofession that they are actually an Iranian agent ?

At 3/06/2006 09:36:00 PM, Blogger Pazuzu said...

it's not about receiving all ppl who are in danger of death to safer countries, it's about sending the people that ARE in these countries back home where they WILL be killed. And facking religion or homosexuality is difficult the ppl that have put this law arent stupid. They have been giving asylum to ppl for ages and they know when to send them back, this law will probably never pass if you ask me .

At 6/26/2006 11:36:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lets get this into perspective an evil blood sucking government, here an Islamic fascist (ala Hitler Nazi type) going on with its business of exterminating all its opposition, and here an there same fascist tendencies such as the Dutch minister giving handing support in doing their dirty deeds.
It is a shame and a disappointment about what humanity represent.
It is not only Christians and gays who are being prosecuted, instead we need to encompass others too women, Atheist, Bahaies, Jews, Azaries, all ethnic minorities are being treated contrary to Human Right Conventions.
Don’t you see there is no alternative, either this evil regime must go or we should all call ourselves barbarians and lesser humans for accepting what is going on. Already millions of people have been killed and are suffering while opportunist politicians fishing for an angle to get re-elected.
Yes there maybe a temporary exodus of people helped to escape; the tide will reverse soon as the evil regime is brought down. Only then we can go back to rebuild and restore our humanity again.
Stop watching bystander wringing their hands hoping to fish in these murky waters.
Shame on the world.


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