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Rantings of a Sandmonkey

Be forewarned: The writer of this blog is an extremely cynical, snarky, pro-US, secular, libertarian, disgruntled sandmonkey. If this is your cup of tea, please enjoy your stay here. If not, please sod off

Saturday, March 11, 2006

Why am I pro women rights?

Well, because of statistics like these!


At 3/11/2006 05:05:00 AM, Anonymous Lehihamra said...

They must have been watching movies with scenes like these:


At 3/11/2006 05:20:00 AM, Anonymous Einherjar said...


At 3/11/2006 05:51:00 AM, Blogger Steven said...

"In Egypt, 94 percent of women thought it was acceptable to be beaten."


At 3/11/2006 05:59:00 AM, Blogger Crazy Girl said...

Women right's? Your pro womens rights? Are you nuts how can you allow such things? Women should be beaten!! We deserve to be beaten!


At 3/11/2006 06:17:00 AM, Anonymous Sydney Kendall said...

I'm staggered.

Hey, you Egyptians, are these statistics believable, in your experience?

I find it very difficult to believe that more that just a few people could ever believe they deserve to be beaten, no matter what their culture or religion tries to tell them.

How many women do you personally know who believe being beaten is acceptable?

At 3/11/2006 06:44:00 AM, Blogger The Sphinx said...

Man that's bullcrap, it isn't 94% for sure. The huge majority of the women I know here would never accept getting beaten. I don't know where these statistics came from, but they're quite overestimated.

And yes, I am pro-women rights

At 3/11/2006 06:44:00 AM, Blogger Crazy Girl said...

I think they are accurate, lets see I have 7 aunts and unlces, my three uncles all beat their wives, I have four aunts and their husbands all hit them except for my one aunt. My one aunt lost a baby from being beaten and she stayed with the bastard. Sad part is most arab women dont feel validated if they don't have man,hence the marriage hysteria going on in Egypt. The worse and Arab man makes a girl feel the more she will do for him and the more she will want to stay with him. My friends sister just got married he chose her wedding dress he altered it to his liking, he made sure she wore the scarf. She let him. She said it was his right! She does not move unless the bastard giver her premission. Its awful.

At 3/11/2006 07:16:00 AM, Blogger Pazuzu said...

It's not crap ot's bery true. In my society women say that there husbands don't beat them and that there shouldn't be violence and bla bla bla. But watch closer, you'd see that there are many times where men practice some violence, a man has to let a woman know who's boss. As a kid I used to go to my grandparents place for a couple of weeks during summer, this one time there were a stupid incident where my uncle's kid needed help with her chair (she was 3 y/o) her mother helps her but accidently sqeezes on one hand , the kid cries, the mother yells the father (=my uncle) yells at his wife to be ignorant and not realising that it was her fault that the kid was hurt... he didn't beat his wife but she sure was treated like a child and my uncle appeared like the sultan of the harim ... he's not a bastard or a bad guy, but you see arab men marry women that are not as articulate or not as experienced as they are so that when the wife disagrees he'd always be capable of proving her wrong.

At 3/11/2006 07:17:00 AM, Blogger The Sandmonkey said...

Sphinx, it makes sense in the context of it being an islamic country. Islam states that a man is allowed to "discipline his woman" by beating her if she disobeys him. Maybe that's why?

At 3/11/2006 07:57:00 AM, Blogger The Sphinx said...

Didn't Islam preach understanding, compassion and mercy in marriage between both partners??

Explain that.

At 3/11/2006 08:24:00 AM, Anonymous Einherjar said...

Are you implying that a religion, any religion, is somehow internally consistent? Because if so, you're the one who needs to do the explaining.

At 3/11/2006 08:36:00 AM, Blogger The Sphinx said...

I am rather asking for the sources that say that Islam encourages beating a spouse. Which I will most probably not get.

At 3/11/2006 08:43:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I spent 4 years in h*ll when I was married the first time. He thought it was his right to beat me and it was my fault because I pushed him to it. I know how difficult it is to break away in a society that somewhat supports you ( this was 26 years ago, there weren't many shelter's then) I can't imagine one that thought it ok to beat women. I wasn't raised to beleive it was right, infact I never saw domestic violence until I was part of it. It's a very shameful thing to admit to yourself let alone the world that this is happening to you.

These women may say it is ok because of the society they were raised in but I bet if they thought that they could fight back and hurt him, I'd guarantee that most would if given the chance! If I were a man who beat his wife I sure wouldn't sleep too soundly at night because I can tell you that his wife is quietly enjoying fantasies about the many ways to kill him.

At 3/11/2006 08:52:00 AM, Blogger Steven said...

I am sure Islam is a wonderful religion mate, but that doesnt change the fact that women are treated like shit in Islamic countries.

Men can rape women and the women are seen as disgrased for being raped. Explain that?

You cant, because it is irrational.

At 3/11/2006 09:05:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This koranic verse says it's okay to beat your wife cuz allah said so.

The Bible says God is not a respecter of person, meaning He treats them equally. Acts 10:34-35

Allah clearly prefers men over women from the koranic verse I posted above and also says men have a degree over women in this verse.

It's obvious to me these two dieties are not the same person. This is just one of the many differences between the Jewish/Christian God and the Muslim god. Allah is most probably the fictional character mohammad made up since mo was illiterate and has not read the bible to know what the Jewish God is like.


At 3/11/2006 09:19:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am sure Islam is a wonderful religion mate,

Ya might want to read up on Islam before you make that assumption mate. Just saying. A good place to start is Faith Freedom International. Read the charges Ali Sina made against Islam and the prophet mohammad and then read the debates between he and various Muslim scholars. If you think that site is bias, then open up the koran and hadiths and read it yourself, that is, if you can stomach all that absurdities that are contrary to modern views, not to mention the poor grammar. Just don't go to a pro-islam site because, for one thing, muslims aren't allowed to criticize their prophet, their religion, or allah. Doing so could bring physical harm to themselves.


At 3/11/2006 09:20:00 AM, Blogger Steven said...

Sorry, typo.

Women are seen as "disgrased" if THEY are raped. Islamic countries are the worst for human rights abuses.

Strange that leftists in America support arab countries against Israel when you look at the region.

Who supports gay rights in the middle east?

Who supports womans rights in the middle east?

Which countries have freedom of the press in the middle east?

Which country allows arab women to vote in the middle east?

Who do American liberals typically hate, even when they themselves support woman sand gay rights?

The answer:
Beautiful, Wonderful, Lovely, Proud Israel!

What countries say that if women are not wearing their viel, they are asking to be raped.

Are you getting the picture?

At 3/11/2006 09:56:00 AM, Blogger Pazuzu said...

BTW I don't know if it showed through my posts but it isn't just about islam, it's culture, in fact unlike what we like to think, holy books don't change man , man changes the holy books, these books are subject to extremely different interpretation depending on what the person wants them to be. Many christian countries are very unequal, inhuman and all that shit, it's all about culture

At 3/11/2006 12:51:00 PM, Anonymous Ximo said...

I am not pro woman rights, I believe in equality between men and women. This includes women being drafted in the army. Just as men. This also entitles men to work as nurses. I think nothing is wrong in the last two examples specially after the increasing number of women cheering in the stadiums side by side with men.

At 3/11/2006 02:35:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...


Tabari IX:113 “Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur’an.”

At 3/11/2006 02:53:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...


I agree. It's the culture.

I'm not moslim but I find it way to easy to blame it on a religion, since it's big in South America too.


Scandinavian person

At 3/11/2006 04:49:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

When my husband and I were just married we lived downstairs from another couple. The wife was a nurse and the husband a truck driver. She would come home from work first and we could hear her scrambeling to get things ready for him. When he came home, if his dinner wasn't on the table he would beat her. My husband and I actually had our first fight over the couple upstairs because I wanted to call the police during one of their fights.
One morning he started beating her because his favorite shirt wasn't clean... After he left for work I went upstairs. It was clear that she had been crying and had bruises on her face. I told her that my husband and I would help her pack up and move that very day; that she could be gone by the time he got home. She looked at me with a very puzzled expression and said "Leave? I'm not leaving. I just got done painting the living room!" To which I replied that at the next peep of violence I would call the police and that I would keep calling the police every time I heard a fight... (and I did, BTW) They finally moved "to the mountains" I guess so he could punch her around in privacy. Hey, it's a sick world and I don't really think religion has much to do with domestic violence.

At 3/11/2006 05:06:00 PM, Blogger Steven said...


And you know what Annon 4:49. You are right that domestic violence exists everywhere, but posts like this deny the trend. You dont have a clue.

There is a significantly worse record of womans abuse in Islamic countries. There is a difference and it is shocking.

At 3/11/2006 05:08:00 PM, Blogger Steven said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

At 3/11/2006 05:08:00 PM, Blogger Steven said...


I am very sorry, here is the link:

I dont know what is up with my typos today.

At 3/11/2006 06:44:00 PM, Blogger Prup (aka Jim Benton) said...

Anonymous 9:19 (which sounds like a verse from a sacred text. The Book of Anonymous, hmmm.)

If you want better sites on the problems of Women in Islam, try the webpage of Ayaan Hirsi Ali -- or read the article in the NYTIMES Sunday Magazine on her, google it. Or check out ISIS (The Institute for the Secularization of Islamic Society). Or the website of Irshad Manli, and the sources for the footnotes of her book. (Particularly the interview with Taslima Nasrin. One quote from that:
IM: Liberal Muslims would say that there are plenty of other verses that treat women with dignity, and fundamentalists ignore those elements to suit their own agenda.

TN: Maybe liberal Muslims are morally decent, but they’re not following Islam honestly. Fundamentalists are. They’re following the “word of God,” and the orders of Prophet Muhammad exactly. So it’s not true that Islam is good for humanity. It’s not at all good. Islam completely denies human rights and treats women very badly.

But what I am looking forward to is the following -- in today's TIMES there is an article about Dr. Wafa Sultan, whose total demolition of two imams in interviews on Al-Jazeera has been downloaded from MEMRI a million times, literally, since it occurred a few weeks ago.

"Shortly after the broadcast, clerics in Syria denounced her as an infidel. One said she had done Islam more damage than the Danish cartoons mocking the Prophet Muhammad, a wire service reported.

DR. SULTAN is "working on a book that — if it is published — it's going to turn the Islamic world upside down."

"I have reached the point that doesn't allow any U-turn. I have no choice. I am questioning every single teaching of our holy book."

The working title is, "The Escaped Prisoner: When God Is a Monster."

I can't wait.

Btw, the websites mentioned are:

Irshad Manli:


Hirsi Ali:

Taslima Nasrin (which might be the most powerful and disturbing of all):

At 3/11/2006 08:11:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous 9:19 (which sounds like a verse from a sacred text. The Book of Anonymous, hmmm.)

That was me, jonas, and I am not looking for any sites about women in islam. Maybe you are referring to the sphinx?


At 3/12/2006 12:57:00 AM, Blogger Steven said...

I dont want to believe the problem is Islam because that would make me feel that I am unreasonable. There are plenty of people who follow Islam who are wonderful people, and that will be the testiment to their religion.

Try freemuslims.com

If I finally say that Islam is the cause, i will become just as bad as my enemy who says being Jewish or Christian is the cause for treating me differently.

No, I can not do it. It is racism (religionism) I dont know some kind of ism and it is not right to generalise. I know of all the websites you cited and have read them. I have also read prophetofdoom. At the end of the day though, there are people who get good values from Islam. You can say that they dont follow their religion properly, perhaps thats right, but they would say that they do. Attacking Islam in general will sepearte us from good people who value their Islam.

At 3/12/2006 01:05:00 AM, Blogger Steven said...

What say you, Mr Sandmonkey, if you are listening?

At 3/12/2006 06:15:00 AM, Blogger Prup (aka Jim Benton) said...

First, Jonas:
I did see your signature. I thought it was a cute line anyway. And I did see that you had suggested that people check out one site. I simply suggested it might be better for them to check out (and you to suggest) sites which would make the point more strongly, and would not be dismissed, by the people you were trying to reach, as biased and not knowledgeable. The sites I mentioned are all by people who were raised as Muslims, and who experienced the anti-woman attitude of Muslims directly. (All of them except ISIS, in fact, are by women.)

Oh, and btw, you can't blame the Qur'an for the 'bad grammar,' since what most people would be reading would be translations, not the original -- which I understand is written in excellent Arabic.

At 3/12/2006 06:32:00 AM, Blogger Prup (aka Jim Benton) said...

Now, Steven:

There is a BIG difference between racism and what you call 'religionism.' Racism holds that certain groups of people, by the fact of their birth, have certain characteristics that other groups of people do not. That is, that one group is more intelligent, more ethical, sexually better, or some other nonsense like that. (This is why the worst anti-Semites have tried to treat 'Jews' as an ethnic or 'racial' group.)

What you call 'religionism' simply holds that certain religious groups hold definite positions, that they do not all agree on some sort of 'fuzzy ecumenicalism.' They do. For any given religion, some of their positions are 'good' and some are 'bad,' from your position or mine. But a religion is not the same as the members of it. Of course there are many good people who break with their religion on specific points.

I am a bisexual man. This means that 'conservative' and 'fundamentalist' 'religions of the book' all condemn me. But many members, even of those branches, have no problem accepting me and my sexuality. (Or, even if they still assume their God will send me to hell, figure this is my problem, not theirs.)

Islam IS, sadly, anti-woman, in many ways. (See some of the sites above.) The Qur'an not only does not accept a woman's sexuality, , does accept polygamy -- but not polyandry -- and assumes that a husband has power over his wife and gives him permission to beat her, but at no point in the Qur'an are women ever addressed directly. Women are always 'they,' not 'you.'

(There are similar problems in the Testaments, but they are 'softened' by many stories featuring strong, noble, courageous, and admirable women. None of this is in the Qur'an, and I have yet to study the Hadiths enough to find if they include such stories.)

But, to go back to my first point, it insults all religions to assume 'they are all alike' because this implies they don't stand for anything and trivializes their beliefs. I may be, and am, an atheist, but I would not disrespedct believers in this way, because I am also a humanist and respect people, even when they are -- to my eyes -- wrong.

At 3/12/2006 08:06:00 AM, Blogger Steven said...

Heya Jim.

I also have humanistic tendencies (my phrase) and I feel that if I condem Islam as being to blame for terrorism or womans abuse I am verging on racism as I am linking all Muslems to terrorism or womans abuse. I cant believe in these steriotypes, and when I find myself slipping into the mindset where I blame Islam or Muslems or Arabs, I quickly give myself a BIG mental slap and start again.

I am an Athiest Jew. I know what racism is and I refuse to have anything to do with it. Religous extremism has got to be stopped. I hope that we can beat this without too much damage.

Sometimes I find myself thinking that Islam is a major problem, but that is too easy. The real problem is hatred and extremism, nobody should ever hate someone for being Muslem or Jewish or Christian or anything, ever. It should never ever happen. We can not blame the worlds problems on Christianity, Islamism or Judaism. That is called a scape goat, and I do not believe scape-goating is acceptable behaviour.

Islamic countries are frightful and, in my opinion, must be overthrown. I believe the only peaceful future exists in secular governments.

In my city, London, Islamists want to have the power to have their own laws. Sharia law in Great Britain. There is a fight in the middle east where Arab countries are using Palestine Arab Refugees as a tool to damage Israel. The world is back to front and inside out. Israel is forced to defend itself in War for its existance, when it survives the land it captures is called illegal. That is not how it works folks.

I am getting off topic, but my point is that we can NEVER simply blame religion for problems, that is not the answer. We must look at the other causes. I will fight for the rights of Muslems, and people of any other group in the hope that when the time comes they will not turn a blind eye or remain silent when I need their support.

At 3/12/2006 09:32:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

prup or Jim

I will as Steven say that it's too easy to blame religion.

Christianity - despite the word of the Bible - have a long and depressing history of allowing violence to women and children, witch hunting/burning ....
Children born outside marriage as well as their mothers were stigmatised.
It's not so anymore, but the remnants in language and legislation are still there.

Any religion can be used for oppressing women. In parts of India the ratio between male and female children is heavily weighted toward male babies, since females are not appreciated.

Sexism is a problem. Domestic violence must be addressed.
But targeting one religion is in my opinion not fair.
It's the culture of accepting violence in the family that must change.

Scandinavian person

At 3/12/2006 10:47:00 AM, Blogger Steven said...

I am challenged yet again:

"Once I read that the number of Germans directly involved in the Holocaust — giving orders in Berlin, building the infrastructure of the death camps, rounding up victims, piloting trains, releasing the gas, hunting down escapees and so forth — was 100,000.

In 1939 the population of the Reich was 80 million, so slightly more than one-tenth of 1 percent of the Germans were actually involved in murdering Jews.

Yet, somehow, I never see anyone trying to clear the German volk of the guilt of the crimes of Hitler's 'tiny extremist minority.' No, the verdict of history is that all Germans share the burden, because all Germans let it happen.

Today, many progressives in the Western world try to explain away crimes committed in the name of Islam. A Google search for the apologetic phrase 'tiny extremist minority' turns up 252,000 results. Why is not the passive Muslim majority held to the same standard as the passive German majority?

And just how tiny is this 'tiny'
minority anyway?"

I dont want it to be Islam. Why cant more Muslem people stand up for the truth, dammit? I will still stand by people of all faiths and no faith, it is wrong to generalise... but it is difficult not to.

At 3/12/2006 11:12:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree that abuse towards women cannot be all blamed on religion. There are athiests who abuse women, just as there are religious adherents who do likewise. However, it is without question that this practice finds validation in the words of the koran. Show me a reference in the koran that says it's wrong for men to beat their women.


At 3/12/2006 12:41:00 PM, Blogger Steven said...

The petition makes me hopeful: http://www.petitiononline.com/No2Jihad/petition.html

Take a look at who has signed. :s

At 3/12/2006 01:17:00 PM, Blogger Steven said...

Another irritating challenge to my policy against blaming an entire religion:

The Religion of Peace.com

"After a week of not-so-cute Buddhist temple bombings, Christian church burnings, Hindu temple attacks, sectarian mosque shootings and the torture and murder of a peace activist - all as Islamic terrorists pile up a triple-digit body count for the fifth consecutive week - perhaps it's time to let them [Muslems in the West] in on the obvious fact that it's not the rest of the world that has a problem with Islam.

It's Islam that makes itself a problem for the rest of us"

At 3/12/2006 02:38:00 PM, Blogger Steven said...

This is an interesting article for you to read, if you like:

At 3/12/2006 03:57:00 PM, Blogger Steven said...

Just because I linked this article does not mean I agree with it. Infact I definately dont. I do not think that our two cultures are incompatible. I still believe that we can get past our differences and live in peace together. The article is, however, interesting to read. This message is mainly for the benifit of Mohammed who has accused me of racism.

At 3/26/2006 01:45:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Misogyny has been prominent for thousands of years. You see it all across the world, even on the news and just walking down the street. It is a problem or society has struggled with for many years. Women and men have fought for women’s rights and respect all there life, and in many ways, it is working. Misogyny can be looked at in many different ways; it is not only respect for women, but its women’s rights too.
We see misogyny in the news nearly everyday. It is not only in or nation, but it is an even bigger problem in countries like Afghanistan and Iraq. Often times women there are abused and mistreated. They are not given a choice in how there town is run, and they are not allowed to wear certain clothes or participate in certain activities. I believe this is wrong because what gives a man power over a woman. Women are the same as men in nearly every way. They are just as intelligent and they have the same ideas men do. I believe women should have the same power as men do.

At 3/26/2006 01:47:00 PM, Anonymous sallyfire said...

I believe women should have the same physical power too.

At 3/26/2006 01:51:00 PM, Anonymous Breadbox said...

Yes i also believe women should be as strong as men!
Why dont we do something about it!

At 11/03/2006 11:46:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ok I am new here. I will say that the whole problem with all of this is the culture of death that we have created.
In cultures of the past were all life was held equal and valuable you rarely had problems like abuse. If there was and it was found out then punishment by law would be enforced. However in societies were life is not sacred wether that be the life of the unborn or the life of someone who does not believe or look like you then society losses its respect for others as well. It becomes a relative morality were there are no absolutes. In the case of muslims the only absolute is the muslim man who follows Allah. None else matters. Here in the US it has become whatever a person deems necessary to ones self if that means taking the life of the innocent or beating someone because they make you mad then it is ok.
First someone has to take responsibility for this!
Second someone needs to step up to the plate and stop it!

Abuse is not the root!
Get to the root!


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