YAY !
Finally, some good news from Denmark:
Dozens of Danish Muslims are joining the network of moderate Muslims, the Demokratiske Muslimer (Democratic Muslims). About 700 Muslims have already become DM members and 2,500 Danes have expressed their will to support the network. The initiative has caused anger among the Danish imams and their leader, Ahmad Abu Laban, who have referred to the moderates as “rats.” The imams feel that they are beginning to lose their control over part of the Muslim population.
Hehehe... Moderates such as Kamran Tahmasebi say they have had enough of fanatic Islamism and its intimidation of the Muslim immigrants in Denmark. “It is an irony that I am today living in a European democratic state and have to fight the same religious fanatics that I fled from in Iran many years ago,” Mr Tahmasebi says. He came to Denmark as a refugee in 1989. Today he works as a social consultant and is very grateful for the life Denmark has made it possible for him to have. He says he no longer wants to keep a low profile to avoid attracting the attention of the imams. The cartoon affair was an incentive for him to stand up and warn against the Islamist imams in Denmark, whom he says are damaging the integration process with their misleading criticism of Danish values and norms.Mr Tahmasebi is one of the people involved in the newly established network of moderate Muslims in Denmark led by Naser Khader, a member of the Danish Parliament. He says he is well aware of the risk he is taking by siding with Mr Khader, who has for a long time been living under police protection. But Mr Tahmasebi feels it is his duty to take part in this debate. “Naser Khader has carried this responsibility for too long. I share his beliefs and now I want to stand up and say so. Apart from that, as a parent I feel a responsibility to fight, so that my children will not have to live under Islamist dogmas. They shall be able to live free in this country.” Mr Tahmasebi adds that he believes the imams are one of the biggest problems Denmark is facing today.
About damn time someone there said it! Good for them.
Way to go Demokratiske Muslimer!
posted by The Sandmonkey @ 2/20/2006 11:00:00 AM
33 Comments:
Hope this becomes a world wide movement.
Sandmonkey, that is good news. I'd keep an eye on those immams, however... how long before we start hearing of moderate muslims being murdered?
http://www.khader.dk/flx/in_english/
May I add that there are now (a week ago) 900 members and 4000 non-moslim supporters.
Naser Khader is one of the most popular MP today in Denmark.
Ah, see now this is a good idea.
Great going guys.
Will be following this with great interest!
Thanks for the links Sam.
It may not be much, but it is a definite start.
Ditto Shoprat...700 may not be a big figure compared to the hundreds of thousands who protested but it all needs a start somewhere.
Sandmonkey, I think I'm falling in love with you! Thank God or Allah or Buddha or Vishnu that the world has you to tell it like it is. Even when I don't agree with you, I like your style, kid.
Time will tell that it was not mighty USA, Great Britain, or any powerful nation – just 5 mill. Danes that alone faced worldwide fanatic Islamic imperialism – saying enough is enough.
A paper - not selling out principles, a PM with balls, 1 (one) muslim with guts, and a nation refusing to be bootlickers. To US – and the rest of the so-called free world – thank you for your support.
That Sandmonkey is one cool mofo...
Individuals such as Mr. Khader and Mr. Tahmasebi are intellectual, liberal Muslims who set a proud example of Islam.
In today's contemporary society, Islam needs faces such as those aforementioned to represent it.
Unfortunately, the phenomenon of the media seems to exacerbate the negative side of Islam and those who destroy its image. The media does not do justice to 'moderate Islam' which NEEDS to be brought forth with force.
The repercussions of the publishing of the cartoons has ONLY brought bad news - riots, arson and lack of civility - and the media has done an incredible job of portraying such acts and has completely neglected those which stood up against the uncivil reactions of the Muslim world.
Visit my blog!
http://egyptianobserver.blogspot.com
It certainly is good news.
700 isn't much compared to the many thousands who demonstrated no, but consider this:
1. The network has only existed about 2½ weeks - it was formed in the beginning of feburary.
2. The numbers appear to be outdated - they are from Februrary 11th. According to a Norwegian article (www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/2006/02/16/458056.html) from the 16th, they now have 900 muslim members and 5000 support members.
That is a doubling of support members and about 30% increase in muslim members - in 5 days.
I hope it really works!
Imans are losing their heads 'cos they're losing control. At least!!!
It's always good to remember that faith is also control... and evrybody is eagerly interested in gather power!
And Democracy finnaly scores!!!
Imam Abu Laban is from egypt, in denmark because he is wanted in his homecountry: cant you investigate what he has done in egypt (maybe called Mubarak a rat!?)
"how long before we start hearing of moderate muslims being murdered?"
A moderate Muslim woman in Norway was pushed under a train last November. She had been campaigning for women's rights.
Dear God, almighty.
Thank you for bringing us Kamran Tahmasebi.
Please bless his efforts to open hearts and minds.
Lift him up and make him strong.
And please, may no more children be killed because of cartoons.
My respect for Islam has suddenly increased.
Now the westearn world must show support for these brave Muslims!
@Blogspat
I think that the incident with the vandalized graves is bad enough -- I'm ashamed of the assholes who did that.
WRT Demokratiske Muslimer -- I'm already voting for "De Radikale", so Mr. Khader may well get my vote next election. I think the image of Islam -- and meaningful communication with the West -- would benefit immensely if the network were to spread internationally.
How about starting up an Egyptian chapter of "Democratic Muslims", Mr. Sandmonkey?
Pretty pathetic when people think it is a risk to speak their mind in a democratic country with freedom of speech. Something is very wrong with this picture.
Get rid of those imams preaching hate and intolerance. If David Irving in Austria can be jailed for denying the existence of the holocaust back in 1989, then the Danes sure as hell can deport those spreading hate and death threats. Wussie Europeans and the West, always appeasing the beast; we are our own worst enemy.
Joanne
Blogspat - vandalizing the muslim graves is certainly nothing to be proud of - but it has happened to christian and jewish graves many times before.
Until now no one knows if this was just hooligans - like in most cases when graves are vandalized - or based on something religious.
Joanne - many of the imams are Danish citizens and cannot be deported anywhere.
Even the imams with a foreign passport can´t just be deportet.
Abu Laban has been in Denmark for 22 years (he dosn´t speak Danish btw) and has his family here.
It would be very difficult to deport him without any criminal record.
That's great news.
Here's a compelling reason for Westerners to keep their cool and give time for the moderates to be heard; it will certainly pay off in the long run.
Marianne -
Laws are for making and breaking - if there is a will, there is a one-way ticket the hell out of Denmark for those imams. If they can't be deported, put them in jail; something needs to be done.
Joanne
Even though Mr. Khader's movement has under 1000 members his moderate branch of muslims seems to much more widespread. Interviews with muslims around Denmark indicate that the imams and their followers are a clear minority.
To Joanna: The Danish society is based on the rule of law. It's for the courts to expatriate people. Apart from that: Who would receive these people if they were expelled from Denmark? When you have lived many years in a country, you are a citizen (with or without formal citizenship) of that country. Don't bring us back to the deportatiion laws of the 1930's!!
The grandmufti Ali Gomaa of egypt; compares the danish state and the danes to Nazi-crimes (in Politiken newspaper)...well gee, thank you!
I'd like to take this oppotunity to thank the people of egypt, the government and the religious crazies, that obviously has played a major role in escalating the Muhammad-crisis: THANK YOU STALINIST, trying to force your oppresive views on everybody on earth, your intolerant religion, and your leaders behaving like Stalin, trying to exterminate every little criticism!
Egypt - you have a sorry reputation for keeping the dialogue, stirring up hate!
We should have a FN-resolution, prohibiting the religious leaders of egypt, instigating hate - in fact we should have a boycot right now, to end the incredible intolerance and hipocrasy thats punishing an entire nation for the views of ONE SINGLE DANISH NEWSPAPER! You are really crazy, do you know that!?! And you are really misusing your prophet in the name of political powerplay...your religion has been tarnished by bad leadership - I hope you understand the injustice thats being made to innocents in the prophets name!
Shame on you!
Maybe I'm too skeptical,but I don't think a true muslim can be moderate,politically speaking.According to the koran,hadiths and Islamic tradition and history,there is the land of Islam and the land of war.Sooner or later,when the muslim population reaches a certain point, "Eurabia" will become a reality.And what will happen to the native Euro-kafirs then,eh?
Anonymous whos skeptic & also ignorant.
1-regarding House of war-house of Islam-Where exactly does it say that in the Quran may i ask ?
2- What Hadith says that, bearing in mind that 90% of hadiths are not obligatory in any way & do not constitute Religious Law, due to the complicated rules of authenticating a saying.
3-You think in stupid terms while repeating antiquated ideas from old centuries & its proven its false. What population are you talking about you dimwit? you are still talking in quantitative measures when it doesnt matter anymore since the industrial revolution??
4- Who said Europeans are kafir & do you dare insist on it knowing that ifyou are mistaken, which you are, it rebounds back to you ior you have forgotton that hadith & verse aswell??
5-According to the Quran, there are different many races & nations for them to find harmony not to fight, sooner or later you will realise how wrong & retarded your statement is.
You dont know what true Islam means, & while we are at it mr skeptic idiot muslim, There is nothing, NOTHING, even remotely in the QUran that talks about houses of war & peace. So Quranically speaking, hadithlly speaking, Historically speaking & traditionally spaking, you dont know what you are saying which proves you are a fool & an occasional parrot.
go read some books you moron.
Anon
Ali Gomaa is inconsistent in his religious edicts, he says many stupid things & this one is just another proof of how ignorant those clerics are. If he isnt ignoant then he used that term to over dramatise the issue, which is the normal thing to do in ME countries. A journalist once wrote about how the Nazis were simply amatuers compared to the Israeli Army, such an article with a ridiculous assumption proves that prejudism & hatred has blinded those writers & they are blinding many readers too.
In general people there like to exaggerate & melodramatise their talks to give special effects to their discussion, i wouldnt care much of gomaa's statement anyway.
marianne
Europe has to modify its strategy towards those religious fanatics & might have to change a few laws or some of their ways to protect the welfare of their society.
These clerics dont care much about freedom, they stifle freedom, they incite hatred & division, they cause lots of damage, mostly to the souls of the faithful who trust them by rotting their hearts & fill it with hatred.
Abu Laban if found guilty must be deported or jailed, the same goes for the UK which has been complacent for a very long time & must step in to diffuse whatever bomb they built there to tear the society's fabric. When you see british born people who are anti british, this is not genetic, this is the way they were brought up , mostyl by their asian folks who still cling to their asian roots & teach their kids they are asian not british. July 7 bombers were despicable traitors & i hope they rot in hell but they also served as a raid warning that there are many who might follow in their steps, you cant deal with this sort of mentality with laws & ideals that were meant for civilized people, you have to get tough but only on the fanatics lest countries turn into a fascist regime, which i doubt it but thats the whole point, tough times demand tough decisions.
Jordan
surely you meant your respect for muslims not Islam. Islam has nothing to do with what its perceived in the psyche of the majority of muslims, unfortunately.
Blogspat
Ali Gomaa had a duty to resist anything that is UnIslamic & non Arab, otherwise he is out of a job. His edicts are easily refuted because it isnt obligatory to any muslim( which is also a problem sometimes), his ignorance on certain matters can be spotted & dont forget that gomaa is somewhat of a theologian fascist himself.
But i disagree that he represents people unlss you mean he represents the kind of traditional cleric with old ideas.
Blogspat
You got it wrong. ali Gomaa only represents himself, his views are his own, he doesnt represent Islam & no one does. Islam is different than Islamic scholars & Islamic philosophers.
> Cosmic Duck: "Interviews with muslims around Denmark indicate that the imams and their followers are a clear minority.
The radicals have always been a minority. They just exaggerated their importance using good old "taqiyya". Ekstra Bladet took a closer look at their list of supporters and I have translated their article here: Swindler's list.
If you only knew more about his personal life!... That's true that people who fail to create a decent family life, strive to take a high position in social life...
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