A new danish apology over the cartoons!
This is not what you think it is!
posted by The Sandmonkey @ 3/02/2006 01:01:00 AM
Thursday, March 02, 2006
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23 Comments:
According to the Danish Televisions newssite
http://nyhederne.tv2.dk/article.php?id=3749877&cbox2
the Danish ambassador to KSA says that he did not apologize on behalf of the Danish government. He just put forward the apology from the newspaper on a meeting between the ambassador and the "advisory board" (what is that?) in KSA. The apology from the Danish government has been published by the Saudian newsagency SPA.
Another try to put down the muslim offense level?
I know jelsted. Kinda says something about the people who put it up, doesn't it?
http://www.danishmuhammedcartoons.com/Apology.html
This site links to "Dansk Folkeparty" the Danish ultra right party, so the misspelling certainly says something about them. It is proof to what you said earlier, dear sandmonkey, that those who profit from the protests are the ultra right wingers, who in some ways want the same things as the islamists they are protesting against.
That is the saddest part of it all, that both the ultra right and the islamists want a backward traditional 50'es society with no equal rights for men and women and a much more rigid society. A society where those who live just a bit different from the majority will be forced into conformity.
Do you get my point?
Yeah..I get ur point..in fact I'd like to thank you for ur point...
You touched on what is this all about...the ultra right, and the islamists are the perfect allies. they have the same principles, and the same interests...and the thing, I think, cuts across geographies..i.e not only in europe, but over here in egypt, and the us, and all over...thats why geographic segregation (ie kicking out immigrants) isnt the best solution....anyways, as i said b4, i still have hope, cuz if it werent for this whole debacle, it wouldnt be so clear to us over here, that u r suffering some of the similar problems over there...
take care...
(a bit of christenophia: is it common for a danish to refer to denmark as our christian land?? cuz thats what is said on the website)
tomanbay has...a bit of christenophia: is it common for a danish to refer to denmark as our christian land?? cuz thats what is said on the website)
NO ! only the clerics from DPP can say that without choking :-)
"is it common for a danish to refer to denmark as our christian land?? cuz thats what is said on the website"
Not that I have noticed. But maybe a couple of retarded policians would do that.
Freja
but note that Mr. Khader is suporting Rushdi.
but please let me know what reaktion would you expect from denmark? there is also soem throuhgt in thise. we pay a lot of monny to the palistianse we do suport them and no they just want to kill us for what? that a news paper puplished that also ...
Esben is right - the ultra wingers uses the words 'our christian land'. The rest of us don't.
I actually participate in a Bible study group and know people who are regular church goers. They are much more compassionate and open for/to other cultures and religions. In my group we discussed the drawings last Thursday and agreed that we would have more in common with the democratic/moderate muslim, that would say i.e. "That some of the drawings are bad taste or biased or an expression of sterotyped prejudices, but not something to burn down embassies over."
Denmark is not the US. The ultra right here are not really regular church goers - so I actually doubt their christianity sticks very deep. It is more likely lip-service. Except the two clerics who are our Danish version of your most islamist imans 'whathisname'.
Reading the "apology" I get the impression that Abu Laban is being the target.
Abu Laban is said to have 10 children, has stayed here for 20 years and doesn't speak danish.
Since he has been taking very active part in stirring up the emotions, some people find it unfair, that he can't be expelled from Denmark asap.
This "apology" site is not reflecting the Denmark I know at all.
And anon 3:51 What reaction I would expect?
I would expext a civilized reaction, showing the difference between extremism and democracy! This "apology"-site is just extremism in another wrapping.
Extremism (racism, nazism, fascism, islamism) are movements using anything (religion, fear, ideology) to gain power and to control others.
The majority of moslims in Denmark wants to live with their families in peace just like any other citizen.
Anonymous at 4.52
I second that!
But even if "Dansk Folkeparti" find it unfair that Abu Laban can't be expelled right away, it is still so that it is necessary to follow the laws in this case. It is characteristic of the extremists that they would like to bend the laws to meet their own requirements.
The text of the socalled apology site has been distributed as a sms about a month ago - as far as I know the text is from a letter to the publisher in the newspaper "Ekstra Bladet".
then isen´t nice that there are more sensible and tolerant people in Denmark?
Don´t believe me? See for yourselves at apology.dk or anotherdenmark.org! ;)
It's like a friggin' pendulum: Bad action, bad reaction on the action, bad reaction on the reaction, bad reaction on that reaction, ...
Dear Sphinx.
I remember seeing - in a state of disbelieve - the torching of the danish embassy in Lebanon, that a moslim "priest" (I'm not sure what the right word is) was standing in front of the mob, facing them and trying to hold them back. What a courageous man that was!
Have to go. I'll be over at the fascist-site condemning them for their extremism.
I especially hated this part:
And so....from all Danes to the entire Muslim world,we just wanna say...
Hey you idiots. You can't speak in the name of all Danes and not to the entire Muslim world (which in my interpretation is every Muslim in the world). Nobody has given you the right to that.
This is simply as idiotic as all those Muslims who have claimed that "every Muslim", "one billion Muslims" etc. has been insulted by the cartoons or that "the West" is to apologize.
Guys, don't exaggerate. If you're just a gang or so, you don't have the right to speak in the name of others.
Since they are writing "From Denmark" and signing "from all danes" I have reported them to the police.
They can say what they want, but they are not talking for me.
"This "apology"-site is just extremism in another wrapping."
Uh, reality check. Telling someone to f-off is just a little bit different from burning down embassies.
It cheapens the meaning of the word to equate one with the other.
Incidentally, the one really objectionable element of the website is their call for people to boycott Muslims EVERYWHERE. Someone should tell them that it's not cool to punish the innocent.
But that assumes the innocent really ARE innocent, of course. Have 100,000 Danish Muslims converged to march in downtown Copenhagen to call upon their foreign co-religionists to drop the boycott on Danish goods? If not, why not? Do they agree that Denmark is a legitimate target for Islamofascist economic warfare?
Their silence should be interpretted as tacit approval.
i don't think two "extremes" are necessarily the same things just because their 'extreme'.
I agree that denmark has nothing to be sorry for & a big hearty fuck off is in order, but I read thru the guest book, & it's just way too full of hateful statements for me to wanna put my name in it. holy crap! these guys need to mellow out a bit.
Dear the foreigner
Your right - this is not burning embassies.
But it's still extremism. This is targeting a group of people in Europe because of their faith and judging them on the actions of others. And that is to me extremism.
There is very little distinction made between islamism/extremism and islam on the site. The rest of the web-site says Islam or moslims.
Have you read the comments section??
Elengil said it so well; generalisation by us is good, generalisation by you is wrong.
A small group of moslims have protested the cartoons in Denmark. The majority stayed home.
And now you want the ones who stayed home to prove that they don't support riots etc?? Staying out of the discussion is approval?
"But that assumes the innocent really ARE innocent, of course."
Would you please explain what you are hinting? That "they" are not to be trusted by "us"?
"They" have not been silent. "They" have been on al-jazeera, giving interviews in arabic newspapers etc.
And don't you read danish newspapers? I read 3 different every day.(jp, berlingske, politiken) They have been full of letters to the editor, explaining how "they" felt about cartoons, riots, burnings, boycott etc.
If I were a moslim from outside Europe and read the web-site, I would find it difficult to trust people from Europe. Just like you obviously find it difficult to trust moslims after seeing terrorism in the name of Islam - islamo-fascism as you put it.
That way both have fulfilled at least part of their purpose.
Oh dear...
So the islamofacist crazys have been trying to hijack Islam and now the eurocrazys are trying to hijack human rights.
How long do you think it will be before the rest of us can move to Mars?
Sigh....
K from Oslo
Dear Anonymous,
Let me start with your last point first.
I don't think this little drama was engineered by Islamofascists to make Danes DISTRUST. I believe it was orchestrated to make Danes SUBMIT to Muslim blasphemy strictures.
And when I look at the spineless wonders at www.apology.dk, I can't help but conclude that the Islamofascists couldn't have picked a better target.
For if Danes don't stand up for themselves, then who will?
My read of the "apology" was that it was an invitation to traitors and malcontents to leave the country. I don't think it was necessarily telling all Muslims to leave.
And before you say anything, yeah, "traitor" is a harsh word. But when you deliberately contact Foreign Powers to coerce your government using violence and economic warfare, then the shoe fits. As far as I'm concerned, the Imams responsible shouldn't be deported; they should be dangling from the end of a noose after being tried for treason.
(Yes, I know, you don't do that in Europe anymore. More's the pity.)
No, I didn't read the comments section. To be honest, all kinds of people can leave comments sometimes. Whether or not to "censor" those comments becomes a issue of time and philosophy for the site owner.
I'll be happy to explain what I meant by saying, "...that assumes the innocent really are innocent."
Let me put it to you this way. Imagine a resurgent KKK burned down several black shops and churches because a black didn't go to the back of the bus. Following this outrage, they then organized a boycott of black businesses.
You'd better believe blacks would be watching for white protests. If they saw none, the only conclusion they could reasonably draw is that whites either agreed or didn't care. In other words, non-protesting whites in such a case wouldn't be innocent.
So, do I think that staying out of the discussion is tacit approval?
Absolutely yes, I do.
I said before that I think it would be a nasty thing for people to boycott Muslim businesses in Denmark. But should it ever reach that point, boycotted Muslim owners will have NO right to complain if they didn't previously object to the boycott directed at Denmark.
It would be rank opportunism for a Muslim owner to yawn while his own COUNTRY is under economic attack, only to cry foul when his countrymen then exact economic revenge for his own indifference.
Now, I'm not Danish, so I don't read Danish papers. I'm heartened then to hear you tell me that Danish Muslims are protesting in the ways you described. But I think we both know that a march of 20, or 30 or 50 thousand Danish Muslims calling for an end to the boycott of Danish goods would be a little more visible and a little more influential than a couple of letters to the editor buried in an Egyptian newspaper somewhere.
Dear the foreigner.
Thank you for answering.
You say:
"I don't think this little drama was engineered by Islamofascists to make Danes DISTRUST. I believe it was orchestrated to make Danes SUBMIT to Muslim blasphemy strictures."
I don't think that it was engineered to make us distrust - but I think that it's a nice side effect for the ones who wanted the confrontation. I think Denmark was chosen because it's a very small country. And making us give in would seem easy if it wasn't for our stubbornness.
You say:
"And when I look at the spineless wonders at www.apology.dk, I can't help but conclude that the Islamofascists couldn't have picked a better target."
I have read bloodthirsty web sites where people wished for and dreamed for that our economy would fall apart. Crying out that it's a shame that we have oil. It's scary. The riots were scary.
And still if you ask the danes, then a majority will not apologize. Neither will I. Danes decide danish laws.
But I will not distrust or target the non radical moslims in my community either.
You say:
"My read of the "apology" was that it was an invitation to traitors and malcontents to leave the country. I don't think it was necessarily telling all Muslims to leave."
The distinction between the extremists and the non extremists are not made. That way it's a message to all moslims, telling them to shut up and be grateful. I think they have a right to say that they didn't like the cartoons. That's not the same as burning embassies.
You say:
"And before you say anything, yeah, "traitor" is a harsh word. But when you deliberately contact Foreign Powers to coerce your government using violence and economic warfare, then the shoe fits. As far as I'm concerned, the Imams responsible shouldn't be deported; they should be dangling from the end of a noose after being tried for treason."
In my opinion we should look into whether they have broken the law or not and whether their offence justifies deportation or not. It's not for the "public opinion" to decide, it's for the court.
I'm against death penalty.
You say:
"I said before that I think it would be a nasty thing for people to boycott Muslim businesses in Denmark. But should it ever reach that point, boycotted Muslim owners will have NO right to complain if they didn't previously object to the boycott directed at Denmark."
And I believe that people can choose to stay out of a fight. The moslim shopowners, teachers, ingeneers and others didn't start the boycott of danish exports and they are not responsible for this situation. They are moslims but the are also danish citizens or staying on a permit with a right to support themselves. Taking them out of business would force them to recieve wellfare, so that is plain silly.
By writing to the newspapers they have protested is in a very danish tradition.
Moslim shopowners in Aarhus have put danish (non burning) flags in their windows. It was in a local newspaper and I don't know if it's a trend in other places.
Extremists are responsible for this situation. They should be the target of anger. And yes I have been angry too.
Dear Anonymous,
I agree with much of what you said, so I'll just concentrate on the points of contention.
You said:
"[The "apology" was] a message to all Moslims, telling them to shut up and be grateful."
I can see how someone could read it that way. My reading was that it was a message to all Muslims, telling them not to engage in traitorous activities.
Like you, I think Danish Muslims have the right to protest the cartoons. Like the "apology" writers however, I don't think Danish Muslims have the right to abuse Danish generosity & hospitality by stabbing them in the back.
You said:
"[Deportation] is not for the "public opinion" to decide, it's for the court."
Agreed. Although having public opinion in favor of that (or treason charges) doesn't hurt, either. There are many things that go unprosecuted due to lack of public support.
As for your stance on the death penalty, let's agree to disagree. I promise not to burn down any embassies simply because we don't see eye-to-eye on that one.
You said:
"I believe that people can choose to stay out of a fight."
And I think that when your nation is attacked, neutrality is not an option. Charles Lindbergh, the staunch American isolationist knew that. Once the Japanese attacked at Pearl Harbor, he threw his full support behind America's effort in World War II.
Had he not, I think his patriotism would have been questioned, and justifiably so.
Lighten up, folks. I read it as being sarcasm---nothing more, nothing less.
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