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Rantings of a Sandmonkey

Be forewarned: The writer of this blog is an extremely cynical, snarky, pro-US, secular, libertarian, disgruntled sandmonkey. If this is your cup of tea, please enjoy your stay here. If not, please sod off

Friday, February 24, 2006

No mystery

Some people sent me e-mails, after reading the Deeyah post, wondering howcome none of the femenist or women's rights groups in the west have been up in arms defending her or championing women's rights in the middle east/muslim world. In order to answer that question and make you understand the reason why that is, let me give you a trasncript of one of my favorite Boondocks cartoons ever. *Huey and Riley playing videogames* Huey: I don't get this whole thing with video games! Riley: What, you mean why you keep losing? Huey:No. Everyone is worried about kids and violence, right? And kids using guns...So why don't they go after the gun manufacturers and the gun dealers instead of people who make video games? It doesn't make sense. Riley: Sure it does. Pretend you're some stupid parent activist person: Who would you rather start beef with- Some nerd who makes video games or some dude with a warehouse full of AK-47s? Seriously.. Now, apply the same logic to this case: who would the women rights groups rather start beef with? A couple of white corporate dudes who will sue and maybe picket? Or a bunch of super angry muslims who will send them death trheats, bombs in the mail, and have no problem killing their own sisters and female family members in honor crimes? Now, if you can get the logic behind that, you will understand why there are never any moderate muslims counter-demonstrating the radical islamists assholes demonstrations. That shit just ain't safe!


At 2/24/2006 06:36:00 AM, Anonymous A. said...

Now, if you can get the logic behind that, you will understand why there are never any moderate muslims counter-demonstrating the radical islamists assholes demonstrations. That shit just ain't safe!

Well, if I understood you and Big Pharaoh correctly, those "moderate muslims" do not exist, except for the both of you. (Exaggeration intended.)

This was probably the most depressing thing I've learned from your blogs, and I pray that I just got a wrong picture.

At 2/24/2006 06:44:00 AM, Blogger Ceru-men said...

AND - allot of western feminists are also pro- VERY pro immigrants - or anti racists. They are also anti-porn and anti corporate, and anti exploitation of the woman body. So when you have a handsome Palestinian freedom fighter and one belly-showing paki girl - well who to choose, who to choose...

Its difficult being PK, left wing feminist in Europe today. You are against racism, but how do you react when one you are defending are calling you a 'ho, and refuse to have a discussion since you are a woman...

At 2/24/2006 06:48:00 AM, Anonymous Markus said...

Hey SM

I love your blog and read it every day...

U R ging to get yourself in really hot water now .. you can say what U want about Islam, the Middle East, the Arab Culture but calling Feminists and women's right groups chicken for avoiding this issue is going to result in a barage of hate mail ....

I am going to sit back and watch the comments.. good luck my friend :-))

At 2/24/2006 07:30:00 AM, Anonymous Adrian from Denmark said...

If a western women rights org took up the case, you can be sure that 1000 immigrant women will come marching in a protest against the western women rights group.

West cannot support non-west against their own will.

At 2/24/2006 08:02:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think that what we have here is the blind men describing the elephant, each partly right but unable to see the whole picture. So lets play join the dots. Do the women's groups not support her because she is showing too much skin? Well, all the feminazis I know would support her right to do so. They also support all women of any nationality or belief and have never bothered to seek permission to air their views and why should they..do you ? Are they scared of a bunch of fuckwit religious extremists out to Islamicise the world..maybe, doubtful but haven't asked. Are they afraid of a head-on clash with a bunch of head-scarf wearing brainwashed women doing what their faith, the Quran and their family tell them is right to do ? Don't know but I've got $50 that says fuckin A. Why ? because that would be blue on blue and they won't do it, no woman Vs woman fighting for any reason because that will only give the fence sitters a carnival. Where I come from we have a little thing and it goes like this. Q. "What are ya ?". A. "Weak as piss".

At 2/24/2006 08:11:00 AM, Blogger Prup (aka Jim Benton) said...

For me, and maybe for other feminists, the question might be supporting women who join/remain with a faith which -- despite its claims of equality -- enshrines an 'unalterable, final, sacred text' which has not one verse addressed to women, which always refers to women as 'they' not you -- and always as objects of men's actions -- and which includes (supposedly God-written) declarations stating that a women's testimony is worth half of a man's and that inherited property should go 2/3 to sons, 1/3 to daughters.
(Yes, yes, WHEN HE WROTE Muhammad was ahead of Western thinking. The West has changed. Islam supposedly cannot change ("The book of prophecy is closed, the inkwell has run dry"))

Add to this the refusal of many clerics to support women -- and who oppose governmental prosecution of those who attack women -- and the continual denial you hear from Muslims "It isn't ISLAM that is the problem, it's just tribal customs" -- as in 'honor killings. (Hey guys, a lot of pagan tribes had pretty bad customs when they were Christianized -- one job of a religion is to convine the converts the customs were wrong, not to accept them.)

Or the Hudood proclamations in Pakistan that make rape prosecutions almost impossible. "It isn't an ISLAMIC government that did this" though Zia took power to make Pakistan more Islamic and wasn't opposed by the religious groups.

Yes, women in Islam are trying to change things, and are succeeding in some places (though getting the 'right' to drive isn't a major accomplishment -- or if it is, that's sad) but they still run up against the unchangeable Qur'an.

At 2/24/2006 08:14:00 AM, Blogger Prup (aka Jim Benton) said...

Anonymous shouldn't "feminazi" fall under the Godwin rule. Oh, well, dittoheads are useful, I guess, showing the ignorance that their leader, Rush Limbaugh, spouts daily.

At 2/24/2006 08:30:00 AM, Blogger Christine said...

I am one who completely understands the huge risk that the "moderate" muslims have to take in order to stand up against the evil others. Especially in non-democratic countries. That said, what is the answer for those people?

I have to give it to the Iranians though. There is going to be a women's protest on the 8th of March there and then on the 14th of March millions will again defy the mullahs by celebrating "Fire Fiest". Considering how the government there lately has been doing some serious cracking down in some awful ways, these groups are taking a huge chance.

A chance that needs to be taken, but sad nonetheless.

At 2/24/2006 09:00:00 AM, Blogger . said...

Mtl had a moderate muslim protest...a few hundred ppl showed up. It was cool! next time i'll take photographs for you.

At 2/24/2006 09:20:00 AM, Anonymous anne kirstine said...

"That shit just ain't safe!"

True, but also a bit more difficult than the issues in Denmark, so it might take at least a 100 years to change something. On the other hand the open society, the free exchange of information, etc might help speed up change?
At least I hope so!

At 2/24/2006 09:38:00 AM, Anonymous Mohamed said...

Since you've mentioned the boondocks and also today you've mentioned american cartoonists and since you're such a freedom of speech nut, do you know how many strictly political boondocks cartoons were banned from publication?
Also, how come you didn't get all worked up about the three year sentence for David Irving in Austria, his opinions might not be pleasant and offensive, but hey, the cartoons were too, jerk.

At 2/24/2006 09:53:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi SM,
Deeyah, or Deepika, is a norwegian-pakistani. I seem to remember that when she came out with her first single (in Norway) there was a lot of noise as she was showing too much skin for some peoples liking. I can't remember any feminists in Norway speeking up for her back then, but then again feminists in Norway are still discussing if u can wear lipstic and still call urself a feminist:) I think the problem is that many lefties are what we call "halal-hippies", i.e they think anything that's forreign and exotic is fine by them. So it's up too young women of minority background to speak up. Well, at least they get police protection...
love your blog by the way:)
K from Oslo

At 2/24/2006 10:30:00 AM, Anonymous chellebelle said...

Why aren't feminist supporting this chick, well feminist are generally against the objectification of woman. They support a right to choose, but of course not the right to support her body. The assumption being when a woman chooses to use her body to sell something (in this case herself) she is just a victim of the brainwashing we supposedly undergo in the west. Anyway, in her day some considered Madonna a great spokeswomen for the liberation of females sexuality and feminist didnt jump on her bandwagon. Anywhoo, dont expect them to get involved in this issue.

At 2/24/2006 04:06:00 PM, Anonymous Clearice said...

Hi Sandmonkey.

I read about Deeyah who have been threatened, and that some of your readers wondered why they did not hear from the western feminists about women’s rights in the middle east/Muslim world.

There are two answers to this.
First: The Westerns do protest. A resent example is the Muhammad drawings and the Danish Imams complaints about Denmark. The Danish Imams in their letter to Muslim leaders complained that they were harassed as Muslims in Denmark, and as examples of this harassment they mentioned criticism of the treatment of women, criticism of female circumcision and criticism of the veil. In the now famous Muhammad drawings, two of these were criticism of the situation of women in Islam.
Several of the death sentences in the Muslim world have raised protests, and the protests have been sent to the actual authorities.
Second: It is difficult for western feminists to interfere in Islamic countries. First the Muslim women often say that they have to do the work themselves, and that other things then the Islamic oppression is their problem. This is what has been said in several international conferences (maybe the participants in these conferences are controlled by the authorities). The other is the answer that it is their culture, and that we have to respect their culture. We are actually accused of racism when we try to interfere.

But we do protest, and we do interfere!

Also: We are now beginning to understand that the Muslim women, who are fighting for their freedom, are in fact also a part of the Islamic culture, and supporting them is not working against the Islamic culture!


At 2/24/2006 05:11:00 PM, Blogger marin_explorer said...

Well, is it really any wonder? Since when has any Muslim sect, country, what-have-you thanked the West for pointing out their problems? Perhaps we should be more outraged, given what goes on in some countries, but once again we'd be accused of defiling Islam. And besides, there's enough longstanding issues for feminists to address in their own countries.

We're accused if we do give a sh!t, then we're accused if we don't. Case in point: some Swiss health care workers of mine, working in N. Pakistan, who were completely harmless, even helpful to Afghan refugees--forced to flee the country because of threats and violence. Who's going to hang around when some idiots lob grenades at you?

Ok, I completely went off-topic, but I still think the whole violence issue is one reason humanitarians have gotten a little cooler to the region. There really needs to be a balanced voice from the moderates for many people to feel safe enough to help out.

At 2/24/2006 09:39:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry I'm late, UTC+10 is a bitch. Ok,Prup, Rush is about as useful as an ashtray on a motorcycle..ditto you. It was something akin to an analogy for extreme feminist causes which by the way I don't necessarily object to, I don't dislike women, my mother was one and so is my wife. I'll not go with the next sentence. Chellebelle, you are right, it's an assumption that women are brainwashed which is why I like the FEMINAZIS..they think for themselves. Why do women assume that a woman who chooses to do something, no matter what, has done so because of brainwashing. My wife will finish her PhD next year and I will give up my job of looking after our 4 kids and go back to engineering. That's us for all our readers, choice, support and a sense of self and self worth. Bill.

At 2/25/2006 03:14:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

'FEMINAZIS..they think for themselves'

Yes, and they also claim to think for every single other woman in the US, and any woman who disagrees with them is automatically persona-non-grata.

Which is bullshit.

The feminists won't support muslim women because they are too busy supporting 'Death To Israel!' and other progressive thinking.

I do agree that Rush is an Idiot when it comes to the environment, but he has this right.

At 2/25/2006 07:11:00 AM, Blogger trillerpiller said...

why doesn't feminists react do this woman undressing.
I consider myselfe feminist, and I'm lazy, but if I would start to do something I think I would try to act on this problem of women being beaten to death by their boyfriends or husbands, everywhere in all the patriarcal cultures. The violence of men against women... I would be talking about the economic issue, how little women own of the total wealth, I would be trying to change laws and organizing shelters. There are so many things to do, so many things that are wrong.
I do think that those men threatening her is fully aware of that most people in the western world thinks she have every right to undress if she wants.
Me myselfe are sick of those videos with almost naked women and dressed men. The only video that is good is "Stupid girl" by Pink.
This woman could be thinking a bit herselve too if she wanted to do something for women, and not just undress to get more money in her pocket. Young girls do not feel good today, with their idols acting like pornostars and everything is just about bodylook. The boys in the videos are fat, ugly, ordinary and dressed, they are good enough as they are but the girls shaking their booty...
Seems like there is two choices, walking around in a portable tent or being naked...both ways submitting to mens desires of how women should be or act.

At 2/25/2006 12:16:00 PM, Blogger programmer craig said...

I think the more likely answer is the bigoted rants that Karen Hughes was subjected to in the Middle East, by women... inlcuding Saudi blogger Farooha of:


You know, all the verbal abuse by female students and female audience mebers, all the abuse in the press, etc. Same thing has happened to Mrs. Bush, and to every other prominent American female to try to support women's rights in the Middle East.

I told Farah I didn't think there were going to be any more women's rights speakers going to the ME, after the Karen Hughes thing. And, I don't think there will. Ever. If women in the ME want "rights" they can do what women everywheree else in the world did. They can damn well go fight for their own rights. Or, they can do without.

At 2/25/2006 03:35:00 PM, Anonymous sf said...

great topic, i always love dropping in on the sandmonkey. that said sm dude get a clue! a womans bare navel is really not the battle of the century or even the moment. probems for women and how we face them is like operating a triage. we pick our patients, most critical first. the middle east is full of subtlety for women, nuance is the name of the game. feminists have learned that the best way to succeed as a woman is to be a woman. we know the answer, its not one many men will figure out. hugs and kisses


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